Twilight Guild Forum

So we have a minimum set of standards to shoot for on the 25 raids, but for many people, the Kara minimums are still unclear. Because of that, I thought I would take some time and put together a list of some minimum requirements you should meet if you plan to take your main char or an alt into Kara to raid.

Please feel free to leave comments here if you feel these suggestions are slightly off. I know the classes pretty well but going down to spec specifics is where I am only experienced in specific ones, there are some specs I have not tried nor desire to play so my suggestions for them may be slightly askew.

These are by no means the max to shoot for, so please keep that in mind. These suggestions are a minimum set to achieve to set foot in Kara and do well where your character can hold its own. These numbers are taking into account start to finish from Attumen to Nightbane/Prince. The early bosses are a little easier but from Curator beyond, meeting and exceeding these stats becomes more important for better success.

Key:

• > means "or more"
• ~ means "about"

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Druids

Feral (Tanking):

• 12-13K > Health (in [spell=9634]Dire Bear[/spell])
• 18-22K > Armor (in [spell=9634]Dire Bear[/spell])
• 20-25% > Dodge
• 415 > [spell=204]Defense[/spell]
  (You will be uncritable at 415 Defense, but you will still eat Crushing Blow's (http://www.wowwiki.com/Crushing_blow) as a Druid tank. The best way to mitigate the damage done by the crushing's is to up your armor and also keep your dodge up as well.)

Feral (DPS):

• 7.5K > Health (Unbuffed)
• 2K > Attack Power (in [spell=768]Cat Form[/spell])
• 25-30% > Critial Strike Rating

Balance:

• 7.5K > Health (Unbuffed)
• +600 > Spell Damage (in [spell=24858]Moonkin[/spell] and caster form)
• 15-18% > Spell Critial Strike Rating (in [spell=24858]Moonkin[/spell] form)
• Optional:
  
  
  • +Spell Hit - Spell hit isnt as important in Karazhan as it is in the 25 raids, with the [spell=33596]Balance of Power[/spell] talent you have a 4% chance to hit with all spells 99% of the time on lvl 70 and 71 mobs and a 98% chance on level 72 mobs, lvl 73 (bosses) that decreases to 89% so a good number in addition to the talents to shoot for would be roughly 5-6% additional or ~ 80 spell hit. Again, this only has impact on bosses in Kara as most mobs are within the 70-71 level range.

Restoration (Healing):

• 7.5K > Health (Unbuffed)
• 8.5K > Mana (Unbuffed)
• +1000-1200 > Healing
• 120-150 > Mana per 5 seconds (MP5) while casting

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Hunters

Beast Mastery:

• 7.5K > Health (Unbuffed)
• 6.5-7.5K > Mana
• 1500 > Attack Power
• 15-20% > Critial Strike Rating

Marskman:

• 7.5K > Health (Unbuffed)
• 6.5-7.5K > Mana
• 1700-2000 > Attack Power
• 20-25% > Critial Strike Rating

Survival:

• 7.5K > Health (Unbuffed)
• 6.5-7.5K > Mana
• 700-800 > Agility
• 1500 > Attack Power
• 25-30% > Critial Strike Rating

Optional:

• +Hit - Like Spell Hit for casters, this isnt as important in Karazhan as it is in the 25 raids, with the [spell=24283]Surefooted[/spell] talent you have a 3% chance to hit. That talent is a bit far in Survival so you might find you arent able to have it with your build. For Hunters, to be hit capped against lvl 73 mobs (bosses), you need 9% (142 rating) chance to hit or 6% (95 rating) if you have [spell=24283]Surefooted[/spell] , so working towards that 9% is good the further inside Kara you plan to go as it will become important once you hit the 25 raids. A 5-8% hit chance is a good goal to shoot for in Kara.

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Rogues

• 7.5K > Health (Unbuffed)
• 1300-1600 > Attack Power
• 20-25% > Critial Strike Rating
• 12-14% (189-218 rating) > +Hit - This is an important stat for Rogues as it will help decrease your miss rate with offhand weapons bringing your overall dps up. For special attacks to achieve a 99% hit rate on bosses, you only need 9% (144 rating) hit or 4% (64 rating) with the [spell=13845]Precision[/spell] talent. To bring your chance to hit offhand up, a Rogue maxes out at 28% (442 rating) or 23% (363 rating) with the [spell=13845]Precision[/spell] talent. This talent increases chance to hit by 5% and is relatively high on the tree and very easy to get for all specs.

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Warlocks

• 7.5K > Health (Unbuffed)
• +700-850 > Spell Damage
• Optional:
  
  
  • +Spell Hit - Spell hit isnt as important in Karazhan as it is in the 25 raids, with the [spell=18178]Suppression[/spell] talent you have a 10% chance to hit with all spells 99% of the time on lvl 70-72 mobs and a 93% chance on level lvl 73 (bosses). This talent of course only affects spells within the Affliction school of magic which is basically all curses. Spells like [spell=27209]Shadow Bolt[/spell], [spell=27215]Immolate[/spell], etc arent affected by this talent. If you are speced for Destruction, Spell Hit is highly important as most of your casts will be from the destruction school. In Kara, its not so much a big deal, but you will notice an increase in your DPS as Destruction spec if you up your hit rating. A good number to work with on the later portions of Kara would be 4-5% (48-63 rating). You need 16% (202 rating ) spell hit to be hit capped on all schools of magic on lvl 73 mobs (bosses).
• Spell Critical Strike Rating - As with Spell Hit, this is generally more important if spec'd Destruction.

Mages

• 7.5K > Health (Unbuffed)
• 7.5K-8.5K > Mana
• +600-700 > Spell Damage
• 15-20% > Spell Critial Strike Rating
• Optional:
  
  
  • +Spell Hit - With different talents available to increase spell hit, its possible to increase it to a level which is good enough for a Kara clear. The [spell=12842]Arcane Focus[/spell] talent will bump your hit to 10% for all spells within the Arcane school ([spell=30449]Spellsteal[/spell], [spell=38704]Arcane Missles[/spell], [spell=2139]Counterspell[/spell], etc) and the talent [spell=29440]Elemental Precision[/spell] will bump your spell hit to 3% on Fire and Frost spells which will bring you to a good level, but you should still aim for at least 2-3% (26-38 rating) more on top of that to have less of a chance of resists on Kara mobs and Bosses. For the spell hit cap for mages is 13% (164 rating) with the [spell=29440]Elemental Precision[/spell] talent, 16% (202 rating) without it.

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Shaman

Elemental:

• 7.5K > Health (Unbuffed)
• 9-9K > Mana
• +500-700 > Spell Damage
• 15-18% > Spell Critial Strike Rating
• Optional:
  
  
  • +Spell Hit - Its relatively easy to become hit capped with a Shaman with talents and totem plus a little bit of gear. The [spell=30674]Elemental Precision[/spell] talent will bump you up to 6% which will cap you on level 70-72 mobs at 99% hit chance and leave you at roughly 90% chance on 73 (bosses) mobs. The [spell=16198]Nature's Guidance[/spell] talent will up it by an additional 3% and using [spell=30706]Totem of Wrath[/spell] as well as the Draenei racial of [spell=28878]Inspiring Presence[/spell], you will be almost capped, something again which is not necessary for a Kara clear and only important on the 25 raids.

Enhancement:

• 7.5K > Health (Unbuffed)
• 1300-1500 > Attack Power
• 15-20% > Critial Strike Rating
• 6-9% (78-117 rating) > +Hit - This is an important stat for Enhancement as it will increase the damage you do with your offhand weapon and up your DPS. Its not critical you be capped for Kara, but with the [spell=16198]Nature's Guidance[/spell] talent, you will gain a 3% rate which will basically cap your special attacks. Autoattack however needs a good deal of hit to lessen the miss chance and to cap, even with the talent, you will need to work to 23% (300 rating) for capping out. 6-9% is a good point to be at for Kara as you will bring your DPS up to a good level and reduce the chance missed on most bosses within. Mobs are all basically lvl 70-71 so its less important for trash as it is for bosses.

Restoration:

• 7.5K > Health (Unbuffed)
• 8.5-9.5K > Mana (Unbuffed)
• +1100-1300 > Healing
• 90-130 > Mana per 5 seconds (MP5) while casting (Not including [spell=33736]Water Shield[/spell])

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Priests

Healing (Disc or Holy):

• 7.5K > Health (Unbuffed)
• 7.5-8.5K > Mana (Unbuffed)
• +1000-1400 > Healing
• 110-130 > Mana per 5 seconds (MP5) while casting (More for Disc as you will have less of a regen bonus from talents than Holy)

DPS (Shadow, Disc, Holy):

• 7.5K > Health (Unbuffed)
• 7.5K-8.5K > Mana
• +600-800 > Spell Damage
• Optional:
  
  
  • +Spell Hit - Again, not so important for Kara as it is for 25 raids, you can increase your hit rating with spells with a few talents. The [spell=33190]Focused Power[/spell] talent will boost some of your spells to 4%, plus if you are a Draenei, you will have the [spell=28878]Inspiring Presence[/spell] racial giving you an additional 1% on all spells. The [spell=15330]Shadow Focus[/spell] talent will up your hit to 10% with all Shadow school spells putting you at a pretty set level for Kara as you would only be 4-5% (54-76 rating) from being hit capped for 25 raids at that point.

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Warriors

Protection (Tanking):

• 13-15K > Health (Unbuffed)
• 12-15K > Armor
• 20-25% > Dodge
• 490 > [spell=204]Defense[/spell]
  (You will be uncritable at 490 Defense and uncrushable with [spell=2565]Shield Block[/spell] up, however during the time where [spell=2565]Shield Block[/spell] charges get used up and you use it again, you will be vulnerable to crushes. This is why a good amount of health is important, to give healers some room to get you back up to full as well as keeping a high avoidance with [spell=3127]Parry[/spell], [spell=81]Dodge[/spell] and [spell=107]Block[/spell]. You should get these avoidance skills as high as you can and 18-22% is a good level to have them at for Kara. You Defense skill increases these as it goes higher but you shouldnt focus on Defense to increase these specifically, you should look to gear with these added increase bonuses once you cap your Defense at 490.)

Arms (DPS):

• 7.5K > Health (Unbuffed)
• 1300-1600 > Attack Power
• 25-30% > Critial Strike Rating
• 3-5% (48-80 rating) > +Hit - The [spell=29592]Precision[/spell] talent will increase your hit chance by 3% total for melee but you should still work to add another 3-5% on that to help reduce your miss rate on bosses. This wont hit cap you for 25 raids, but it will give you a good start on less chance to miss. You need approximately 6% (95 rating) as well as the [spell=29592]Precision[/spell] talent (9%) total to avoid misses with special attacks on bosses and with a 2H weapon. Hit becomes increasingly more important if you [spell=674]Dual Wield[/spell].

Fury (DPS):

• 7.5K > Health (Unbuffed)
• 1400-1700 > Attack Power
• 20-25% > Critial Strike Rating
• 10-12% (160-192 rating) > +Hit - The [spell=29592]Precision[/spell] talent will increase your hit chance by 3% total for melee but you should still work to add another 10-12% on that to help reduce your miss rate on bosses since you will most likely be [spell=674]Dual Wielding[/spell] as Fury. This wont hit cap you for 25 raids, but it will give you a good start on less chance to miss. You need approximately 6% (95 rating) as well as the [spell=29592]Precision[/spell] talent (9%) total to avoid misses with special attacks on bosses and adding an additional 10-12% atop the talent will help reduce your miss rate with an offhand weapon. If you use a 2H weapon, the [spell=29592]Precision[/spell] talent plus 6% (95 rating) will hit cap you on raid bosses, if you [spell=674]Dual Wield[/spell], with the [spell=29592]Precision[/spell] talent, you will need 25% (395 rating) to be completely hit capped for 25 raid bosses.

Paladins

Holy (Healing:

• 7.5K > Health (Unbuffed)
• 8.5K > Mana (Unbuffed)
• +1000-1200 > Healing
• 80-100 > Mana per 5 seconds (MP5) while casting
• 14-18% > Spell Critical Strike Rating (Specifically Holy Spells as this will benefit with the [spell=20215]Illumination[/spell] talent

Protection (Tank):

• 13-15K > Health (Unbuffed)
• 4.5-5.5K > Mana
• 12-14K > Armor
• 200-300 > Spell Damage
• 490 > [spell=204]Defense[/spell]
  (You will be uncritable at 490 Defense however you need 102.4% avoidance with [spell=27179]Holy Shield[/spell] up to be uncrushable. [item]Libram of Repentance[/item] is basically a must to use for tanking along with increasing your Dodge, Block and Parry to roughly 67% with [spell=27179]Holy Shield[/spell] active to be crush immune. With the [item]Libram of Repentance[/item] and [spell=27179]Holy Shield[/spell] you need roughly 32% on Block, Parry and Dodge. Crushing Blows are only a concern for bosses and less so for trash mobs, although if you have extremely low defensive skills, trash mobs can still crush you. This is less important in the early areas of Kara but will become more important on the later bosses like Prince and Nightbane as well as into the 25 raids. Working your passive defensive skills up as high as possible is the best advice.)

Retribution (DPS):
TBD

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Please feel free to add/correct this if you see some things off. Im by no means an expert in every class as I dont think anyone can truly claim to be that, but I wanted to give a basic minimum for people to look at for achieving success in Kara. Please remember, these are minimums that I put together taking into account a start to finish clear. As normal, the very lowest of these numbers is needed for the first half of Kara (before Curator) and beyond that the highest as it gets increasingly more difficult.

Also, I am at a loss with Ret pallys so any input I can get on that spec please post so I can add it to this guide. Thanks.

General expectations for entering Kara as a Ret is an ATK Power similar to Rogues, Crit Chance similar to Enhancement Shammies, and over +300 spell damage. Minimum mana I'm not 100% certain, but with Benediction and Sanctified Seals and having tinkered around with Ret style for a while, mana pots should easily keep you up through encounters.

So following the format you've rolled out, it would be somewhere along these lines:

Retribution (DPS):
7.5K > Health (Unbuffed)
4.5-5.5K > Mana (Unbuffed)
1400 > Attack Power
15-20% > Critical Strike Rating
300 > Spell Damage

I thought they discontinued the production of ret pallies back in '07....hrm.....

I didn't think spell dmg was a requirement of ret any more as they phased out the spell dmg coefficients in favor of melee procs instead (SoC and CS using weapon dmg instead of spell) although i guess SoC judgements still need spell damage... /sigh...stupid blizz

[item]Spicy Hot Talbuk[/item] is a free +hit boost for rogues.  Add that to an Elixer of the Mongoose or Elixer of Greater Agility and your stats will jump dramatically.  Much love to BoK!

Quote from: Arcdelad on May 27, 2008, 08:33:03 AM
I thought they discontinued the production of ret pallies back in '07....hrm.....

Try playing now without a ret pally.  I am actually running out of mana now on our 25 mans, and it's not fun.  I miss JR already ;)

[item]Spicy Hot Talbuk[/item] is good for hunter's to, makes it easier to reach the hit cap of 142 (9%).

I know that golden fishsticks are good for a food buff for a priest,but what is recommended for elixers to bring to raids?

I can't speak from first-hand experience (since that I don't have a raiding priest =P) but it seems to me that either [item]Elixir of Healing Power[/item] or [item]Elixir of Draenic Wisdom[/item] would be good ones to carry. Plus you can use those two at the same time, since the healing power one is a Battle Elixir and the Wisdom is a Guardian Elixir.

My warlock Fireheart can make [item]Elixir of Draenic Wisdom[/item] - she doesn't have the recipe for the healing power one though.

I can make those elixirs plus I'm an master of elixir's to boot. 

]:D Leafs  ]:D

you can also use [item] Elixir of Mageblood [/item]




Ok why cant i get it to link >.<

Quote from: kajunlady on May 28, 2008, 04:22:38 PM
you can also use [item] Elixir of Mageblood [/item]

Ok why cant i get it to link >.<

Need to use the exact name, which in this case is [item]Elixir of Major Mageblood[/item].

(I guess no one wants blood from minor mages.  ;))

GB

[item]Elixir of Major Mageblood[/item]

very handy

I use [item]Elixir of Major Mageblood[/item] for almost every raid when i can find it  and if i can't i stick with [item]Elixir of Healing Power[/item] and [item]Elixir of draenic Wisdom[/item] along with always haveing intell scrolls ( incase no mage) stam scrolls ( in case no priest) protection scrolls and spirit scrolls. [item]Golden Fish Sticks[/item] or [item]Blackened Sporefish[/item]

QuoteI miss JR already

Awww! It doesn't take all too much work to get a pally ready for raiding as ret... and we have several who can fill in for me easily. But yea, the utility of keeping judgements up is rather nice. But just my 2cents for being able to be effective in Kara as ret I would recomend:

(all unbuffed)
1450AP
20-25% crit
and hitcapped (9% total +hit... i highly recomend Precision)
The health and mana will come naturally. As long as you're alive and still have mana to DPS, you should be fine but for numbers I'ld say about 7,500-8,000 HP and anything over 5,500 - 6,000 mana. We are very mana efficient especially with BoW and JoW on the boss.