Prot warr tanking, which, incidentally is another one of those "If im prot, im putting all 61 pts in there" tanks, and then this with the gloves in Arc...
These people think PvP epics carry over into PvE 1 for 1 for everything and because they are purple they must be better in every way. Yes, admittedly some items carry over in PvE from PvP/Arena, mostly weapons, for druids and other dps classes some armor as well, but eventually in the game you run into a wall where your pvp items do not allow you do play to the potential that PvE items would. Thats why Blizz tries to keep such a strong seperation between PvP and PvE yet I always see people like this in PUGs that think they are gods gift to WoW with thier PvP gear.
Reminds me of that "Rufryder" guy who was 0/0/61 and no Shield Slam... :-X
GB
The hunter has slightly more health than the tank...wow
If you think good PUGs are hard to come by on our faction side, imagine Horde. Its 100x worse =P
My PvP gear rant:
Every rogue is the same, with mixed arena gear in every slot, Dory's Embrace, PvP trinkets, SSO/PvP necks, and two specs for the entire class.
Cerealbox, next time you see him tell him Hyperlock had extreme fun killing him at the SSO isle
On topic now, I mainly dislike people who get the pvp epics but no trinket...seriously, ive seen so many people with 5/5 s1/2, vindicator and all that but no trinket.
That guy was an ass to me in group. I won [item]Five of Lunacy[/item] on a greed roll and he acted like a complete baby, then also called me "gay" because I have Alliance characters. Atop all that, he was awful and whined the whole run about everything. He doesnt follow directions, insisted that he be the one to pull mobs, so the tank had to burn taunts, DPS was atrocious, it was a horrid run. If he flags again, kill him as much as you want, I hate him.
My thing is, even with that guy too, they make the gear so easy to get, these people think its good because its purple. No one understands that the color of the items indicates its quality, not its value or its usefulness or drop rate. [item]23705[/item] has little to no usefulness whatsoever, but Ive gotten so many questions asking where to get it and how badly these people want it simply because its purple.
/agree with Dep
The 2 minute trinket is by far the best piece of honor gear you can buy and it's near impossible to PvP (effectively) without it.
Quote from: Shadowwolf on July 17, 2008, 02:07:07 AM
That guy was an ass to me in group. I won [item]Five of Lunacy[/item] on a greed roll and he acted like a complete baby, then also called me "gay" because I have Alliance characters. Atop all that, he was awful and whined the whole run about everything. He doesnt follow directions, insisted that he be the one to pull mobs, so the tank had to burn taunts, DPS was atrocious, it was a horrid run. If he flags again, kill him as much as you want, I hate him.
My thing is, even with that guy too, they make the gear so easy to get, these people think its good because its purple. No one understands that the color of the items indicates its quality, not its value or its usefulness or drop rate. [item]23705[/item] has little to no usefulness whatsoever, but Ive gotten so many questions asking where to get it and how badly these people want it simply because its purple.
With pleasure! 3 dots killed him, so i didnt have to put forth ANY effort to kill him.
Purples are the new greens.
Quote from: Shadowwolf on July 17, 2008, 02:07:07 AM
[item]23705[/item] has little to no usefulness whatsoever, but Ive gotten so many questions asking where to get it and how badly these people want it simply because its purple.
Well
I think it's pretty XD And I've gotten the same questions about it, heh. Yay for "having" a bunch of zeros and ones that look nice :P
yI don't have the pvp trinket on my rogue and I do just fine. Just because I can shadowstep, CLoS, and vanish my way out of just about everything lol Another rogue or mace spec'd war are usually my only problems when it comes to movement issues.
Coming from someone who built their entire character around PvP gear, I have a few things to say:
1.) Crossover is good for melee dps, mainly warriors. Truth be told, for an MS war s3/4 gear is about as good as you can get until t6 / sunwell level.
2.) Once you hit that crossover, it is pretty much inadequate.
3.) Tanking in PvP gear is a last resort.
4.) I will happily gank anyone you want, whenever it's possible.
5.) If we're playing these guys in AB, how the @#$%& do we keep losing?
-Tris
shadow was running with the only other 4 horde on our server...
most of the horde we face are from different servers
Yea, our server's horde are nearly non-existent.
And yea, Melee DPS can use PvP stuff to DPS as a sub to PvE gear, Heck I still do and will put on more pieces if the situation calls for it, since we do take a lot of damage sometimes, the bonus stam is real nice... and gearing for us is easy since we really only need 2 stats to DPS.
Like against VR and with Leo last night, I put on a couple pieces of PvP stuff just to put my stam over 12k to make it easier on healers so I had a few more seconds to be able to bleed before death (Can't avoid all the WWs).
My biggest gripe are the extremists from both parties, those who will BG until they have full S1 with no effort on the PvE side (just seems too much like government handouts to me) -and- the people who won't allow anyone with PvP gear into their groups for PvE
ok im done
Yea im ok with understanding theres some carry over between the 2. I also know some raid instance drop PvP centric items, like our lovely Lurker kill on Monday which resulted in [item]The Seal of Danzalar[/item] like Khader said, "For when those times in PvP a raid boss happens to show up". What I dont like is people who just PvP for S1 or now S2 and then approach with the attitude "ok im done" and think they are set with gear to kill Illidan. The ease of attainment on these items has created that mindset in many inexperienced players where now thats mostly what you end up seeing in PUGs these days. Yea, ok, S1 will allow you to traverse heroics and even Kara well without too much difficulty, but again, for some classes, it just doesnt work. Like the other night on my hunter when trying to run Heroic UB and our WARRIOR tank was in head to toe PvP items and using [item]31292[/item], he became the 3 hit wonder, 2 hits from the mobs and 1 hit to the floor dead. Needless to say the group disbanded and I never got my daily done.
And yes, sadly, all the good horde basically left Alex, all the morons and children pretty much are left. Theres a few pockets of decent players here and there in the large horde guilds, but for the most part they are few and far between.
To turn the converstation around. I like PVE players in my BGs with my PVP gear on. I get to crit them for 3200+. I even crit a warrior last night for 3700. I love [spell=2458]Berserker Stance[/spell]. It does amazing things for my crits
I love pvp epics because enhancement shammy mail does not exist from raids.
Your UI is mad skillz Shadow. I want me one of those.
What I've found from raiding is that many classes can benefit from going full, or at least near full pvp gear. In many cases, such as mages, moonkins, the spell crit offered through pvp gear helps put out dmg ( I know you know what I mean :) ). Pvp gear can even cut it as starter raid healing gear for healers. Before Vittoria's GM went unstable, his gear comprised of quite a few pvp pieces (except the trinks, shield and neck I believe).
While I do agree that pvp gear can be a good raid gear kick off, it's best used in moderation. For example, if out of necessity a tank is needed by their guild to start kara and the tank mixes some pvp and pve gear, its fine. But when the tank has full pvp gear (AND the ugly shield), it's terrible.
On a separate note, I used to HATE IT when I saw full s1 pvp rogues WITH sub builds running around with the Shard of Contempt. But now, I don't care because my hard work paid off and I gotz one! :D
Seriously though, there are certain limits to how much pvp gear can be incorporated into a pve set. For rogues at least, I'd say a safe threshold is no more than 2 pieces (ideally the chest and shoulders).
The issue with a PvP set for raiding is once you hit the higher level 25 content, its not as good as people think. For example, most PvP gear offers up no +hit, spell or otherwise, so because of that, even gemming +hit doesnt come anywhere near where you need to be to be formidable in PvE content of a higher caliber (SSC/TK, etc). While the spell dmg might be there or the atk power, without Hit, on mobs of higher lvl than 70, your miss/resist rate becomes so high that your dps starts to fall. I believe it was Dep who was on a ZA run with some mage in head to toe PvP gear and while the DPS number showed something like 800, the overall dmg done was below the tank because the mob resist rate was something like 24%. So while when a Fireball/Frostbolt/Shadowbolt/Melee Swing hits a mob or boss for a high amount, the amount of times it takes to land that hit is where you're falling short.
The other shortcoming of PvP gear is you are sacrificing a lot of valuable stats in place of +stamina. PvP is all about survival so stamina becomes a mainstay of a good PvP set, because of that, you have items with not so great other stats in terms of damage output. Priest sets in PvP contain really no spirit, which is bad, for a holy spec or any spec really as spirit counts a lot towards mana regen and +healing/dmg. Hunter sets have really no int stats, so due to that, you end up with hunters that have 12k hp unbuffed but less mana than a prot pally and cant last through long duration fights aside from Autoshot.
PvP gear was never designed to replace PvE items, Blizz always wanted and as far as I can tell still wants to keep the 2 separate because if you could PvP your way to Illidan or Kil'jaeden, there wouldnt be much value to the game then. Its good to get you through the likes of Kara, Gruul, Mag, but once you creep beyond that, the value of the items starts to drop rather quickly.
In truth however, there are some PvP items which carry through value well into later portions of raiding, the 1h swords for example are some of the best in the game for rogues till BT drops, but these items are few and only for some classes does it work.
The big issue here is because so many people equate Purple with "leet", they think all they have to do is PvP to gear up and then they are set for high level raid content. It just doesnt work out that way but most of them are not smart enough to see a difference.
Agreed with respect to the hit thats lacking on pvp gear. In my pvp set ( 3/5 brutal 2/5 veng and all guardian), non raid buffed, without saccing a pet, im at over 1300 damage. Thats very comparable to my pve set...maybe even higher. However, without any spell hit, my dps is prolly a good 500 pts or more lower in comparrison. Its the reason why reaching the spell hit cap is more important than any other stat. For a lock 202 is a lot, and u really cant afford to use pvp gear. That said, the necklace and s2,s3,s4 weapons are very viable in pve raiding. Weapons come with spell hit and the necklace, u cant find much better til sunwell really.
With BCs introduction blizz specifically made it this way with the spell hit/resilance changes. Pre bc my full gm gear was on par with tier 2 and some 2.5. It was very viable for pveing. I didnt replace any of it til around 65 and still had a few pieces at 70. Onyx, in full pvp gear, had great matches against Myst, in full pve gear, and Myst won many of them. I do believe this was what blizzard wanted to prevent.