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IMO

Started by Khanus, April 08, 2007, 02:46:31 PM

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Khanus

Too many classes can silence, In pirticular Mages counterspell which last for what seems like forever is way way way too long. Spell inturupts like kick that also silences that school for 2 seconds is fine with me 10 seconds however is much too long. Counterspell=me dead. Also rogues posions are not dispellable, no its not the talent that makes then harder to didpsell because after having wound posion on me and being out of combat I spammed dispell posion at least 10 times without one stack of posion being dispelled. This has been confirmed by several other shamans and I believe by blizzard as well. Druids rogue form is a tad bit overpowered in Pvp. Even more so that rogues, I've yet to live through a druid stunning me, where as I've lived through a rogues stun lock a bunch of times.

Vengeance

Druids wont stop getting complained about till their down to the leve they were pre-BC.

Air

Not being able to dispel the rogue's poison is a bug and blizzard has acknowledged it.  Should be fixed in 2.1.
"Don't be a Dick." - Wil Wheaton
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Khanus

Well getting stunned once and then having a druid chow through 8k hp without reaplying another stun is a bit overpowered dont you think?

un4

Quote from: Airplay on April 08, 2007, 04:09:30 PM
Not being able to dispel the rogue's poison is a bug and blizzard has acknowledged it.  Should be fixed in 2.1.
Hey, finally a little rogue love!  Oh wait, never mind...
un4

Shadowwolf

Blizz has acknowledged a large class imbalance in regards to PvP. Unfortunately they've also stated theres not a whole lot they can do about it in terms of 1 vs 1. Its true also because each class is built differently and with 3 trees of talents, theres no 2 characters that need be the same.

They designed the new talent builds and spells strictly for PvE use, that they have stated repeatedly but they also stated they realized after that it caused some rifts in the PvP area for everyone. They also removed the ability to be a hybrid and function in PvP like most rogues used to do. Although I remember not too long ago when rogues got a talent revision pre-BC how everyone claimed OP and to a small extent it was true.

1 v 1 is never going to be equal, not ever. Thats something I think if anyone plans to PvP needs to accept as reality before delving into that world. That there is evident when on my Warlock with just the help of a Shadow spec priest I can take on 6 hordies all mixed classes and win over and over and over being 3-4 levels below them. Primarily, when they would attack 1-2 at a time, id own them simply by fearing one and focusing the other till they died. When they got smart enough to get me 2 or 3 at a time with some fear immunity or stunning me, I was toast. Its all a matter of working together, too often people think of PvP in terms of 1 v 1 and you just cant.
Come to the darkside, we have cookies.
"A flute with no holes is not a flute, and a donut with no hole is a danish" - Chevy Chase as Ty Webb in Caddyshack
"Be who you are and say what you feel, because those who mind don't matter, and those who matter don't mind."- Dr. Suess


un4

I prefer to hunt alone or with one other stealth-equipped class.  :P
un4

Khanus

Yes, I realize pvp will never be 100% even, but it should not be so uneven that with one spell I'm out of comission for 10 seconds, which is long enough for any half decent mage to kill me twice over. While counterspelled I can not heal drop totems or cast offensive spells, yeah I can melee but I do a whopping 100 damage per hit. If you notice I have not complained about the fact that warrior damage scaled much better than Shaman damage and a shaman will almost always lose vs a warrior. Nor am I complaining that shamans have next to no survivability in PvP where CC is king. Shamans can't beat alot of classes easily, I'm just pointing out the biggest problems I face. Unfortunatly most people dont believe this as Shamans were once a very good class in PvP and still are at lvl 60...however 70 is a different game.

Shadowwolf

#8
No need to get worked up, im just stating my opinion and what ive seen and been told.

Thats all fine, but you also have a spell interrupt. Earth shock provides the same thing, with talents its cooldown is less than a mages counterspell (unless they are arcane). You should also utilize your grounding totem more in that respect as it should suck up counterspell, fear, etc so you dont have to worry about all that. If you get within melee range of a mage, it wont matter how decent they are, every frost or fireball is 2.5 sec to cast if they have talents, longer w/o so hammering away even if your melee dmg isnt large is enough to slow that down enough to wait out the earth shock CD and wail away at them. Not to mention they wear cloth, not sure why you only do 100 dmg per hit, perhaps your weapon skill needs work or maybe your using the wrong weapons, but for a shaman its versatility. If you can cast them down then melee them as the other option. Youd be surprised even a clothy with 7k hp will go down quickly with melee dmg thats constant since armor will only reduce dmg taken by 20-30%, 40% tops.

While I dont doubt lvl 70 is vastly different than lvl 60 as far as pvp goes for a Shaman, I dont see the class being so frail as to not be able to hold its own. Ive gotten hammered by shaman on all my characters, the easiest ones for me are the enhancement ones as all I need to do is keep them away from me and hit from afar and they go down, all the others present a problem for me 1v1.

You might just need to adjust tactics is all. Experiment a bit in world pvp instead of a BG or Arena and see what works best. Same for talent points.

Unfortunately theres no way to "fake" pvp anymore in regards to talent points, certain builds work, and certain ones do not. Thats the way the game has changed sadly. Experimenting and finding the set which works best for you is going to take time and unfortunately money as well but if you are serious about pvp then it should be well worth it then I suppose.

Personally for me, I take pvp in stride. I do what I can, laugh about it and just have fun with it. I play my character how I see fit and if it works for pvp so be it, if not, so be that as well. Ive honestly not pvp'd much since x-realms and  probably wont because I just dont get the fun out of it. World pvp on the other hand I do, because at least I know the people im playing against in world pvp, they arent some no name person from another server who takes the game so seriously and has no honor in that they GY camp, etc where its not enjoyable which to me, so far, thats every BG ive ever been in since x-realms.
Come to the darkside, we have cookies.
"A flute with no holes is not a flute, and a donut with no hole is a danish" - Chevy Chase as Ty Webb in Caddyshack
"Be who you are and say what you feel, because those who mind don't matter, and those who matter don't mind."- Dr. Suess


Arcdelad

I have mixed feelings about druids "overpowering"...on one hand, I suffered many moons borrowing rogue gear and trying to make other gear work for me as a feral druid since there really wasnt any feral specific gear (this changed very very slightly with the [wowitem]Mace of Unending Life[/wowitem]...I suspect thats when blizz' attitude began to change since AQ was a relateivley late addition to WOW)...we used to be way below a rogue, way below a mage, not as good as a warrior, and maybe a respectable healing class in resto. Im sure all this translated into suspect PVP results..I dont recall seeing many GM druids back when guys like tyban, gren, and buz actualyl had to earn the pvp gear through blood, sweat, and many sleepless nights.

So now, like shadow said, classses are specced for PVE play, and druids are uber. Now whenever I get to go into cat form in an instance I always out DPS rogues, mages, and hunters (although I havent ever DPSed besides lynette...I suspect he would give me a run), Shadow in her moonie form was out dpsing, well, everything, even when she was 2 levels below the other people, I have been a pretty decent tank in place of our missing prot warrior corps (IMO), and Ive ran instances with Raerin where she was extremely voc-like, using almost zero mana it seemed like and keepeing everyone topped off. Druids can now do everything their other counterpart classes can do as well, if not better, than they can.

Naturally thsi would spill over into PVP....I have mixed feeligns becuase I agree we are probably too powerful...however, that overpowered druid who killed you in 8 seconds probably suffered being a substandard class with no gear for a long time...so maybe that player deserves some superiority now...

un4

I've yet to be out DPSed by a druid in an instance.  There are a lot of bad rogues in WoW, and a lot of rogues who haven't tried everything yet.  I've had about 40 different talent builds, forever to hone my skills  ( :P), and some pretty good gear.  Sometimes you just need to sit down and spend a while tweaking until you get everything right.

At least I'm not getting shafted like priests :D
un4

Arcdelad

there are a lot of bad druids out there too :P

Khanus

Yes I do have earth shock, It does inturupt and silence for 2 seconds and a 5 second cooldown with a 20 yard range. The problem is a mage comes running is and hits me with counterspell that has a 30 yard range. When I see the mage there is no way I can close the gap that fast were he cant just hit me with counterspell. For 10 seconds all I can cast is Flame Shock and Frost Shock because almost all my spells are nature. Also Shocks are a viable source of damage in PVP, my shocks often crit for as much as my LBolts around 2300. Saving that kind of damage, because they are all on global cooldown, to wait for a spell to be cast sometimes seems well kinda of crappy. I usually use ES rank 1 to inturrupt spells because it is basically free of mana. Also after affected by counterspell I can not drop a totem, and the reason my melee sucks is that all weapons that have +spell damage or +healing do 41.X DPS no mater what level they are. Even with Flametounge thats another 200 damage at best. Shamans arent frail but in the world of Alliance PvP when your butt is too often left to hanging out to dry it is still discouraging that I cant even defend myself because of one spell. As far as my build goes...Its viable 39 Elemental/22 Resto. I dont have the two top elemental tree talents because honestly, they suck. Totem of Wrath is a joke and Lightning Overload is well a little less funny joke your best friends brother tells and you're required to laugh at. I traded the top end elemental talents for Natures Swiftness in the Resto tree and its worth it. An Instant Healing Wave or Instant Chain Lightning can make or break an encounter in most cases. I've thought about hanging up my DPS for full resto because sadly our best PVP tree seems to be our healing tree.

dharq

See mage = grounding totem.

Will suck up that first counterspell they throw and give you time to close the gap.


Khanus

PVP=Grounding Totem Always unless you're in AV, then when fightin' NPC's Wrath of Air totem. Unfortunatly grounding totem has a cooldown. Usually I see mages target my "Blue" totems first and destroy them before targeting me, as they too know Grounding Totem sucks up counterspell. Its the smart thing to do, when fighting other shamans I hit grounding totem with ES rank 1 to get it out of the way so I can throw up elem mastery and nuke em.