Twilight Guild Forum

World of Warcraft => WoW News, Development & Bugs => Topic started by: Shadowwolf on January 10, 2011, 03:39:29 PM

Title: Upcoming 4.0.6 Patch Notes
Post by: Shadowwolf on January 10, 2011, 03:39:29 PM
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[/blizzard]

Orange - Jan 24 Additions
Purple - Jan 28 Additions
Title: Re: Upcoming 4.0.6 Patch Notes
Post by: Oilslick on January 11, 2011, 05:27:34 AM
[blizzard]Berserk no longer breaks Fear or makes the druid immune to Fear.[/blizzard]

Wow....just wow.  That's a game changer in pvp.  Nerf our bleeds and give us no ability to temporarily get out of a fear - i guess we know who blizz wants to tear up ferals in pvp...everyone?  Wish i could stance dance it...

Title: Re: Upcoming 4.0.6 Patch Notes
Post by: Shadowwolf on January 11, 2011, 06:08:44 AM
They actually talked about it a bit on a separate post and it kind of makes sense. Right now, Feral Druids are pretty much unstoppable in the arena because you cant root them, cant poly them, and with that, cant fear them, so you cant really CC them at all which if you look at it, thats really ridiculous. You still get all the other immunities/removals, but the fear thing is now at least an option if you have a class that can do it to control a feral in the arena.
Title: Re: Upcoming 4.0.6 Patch Notes
Post by: Grendeel on January 11, 2011, 09:35:08 AM
Quote from: Oilslick on January 11, 2011, 05:27:34 AM
[blizzard]Berserk no longer breaks Fear or makes the druid immune to Fear.[/blizzard]

Wow....just wow.  That's a game changer in pvp.  Nerf our bleeds and give us no ability to temporarily get out of a fear - i guess we know who blizz wants to tear up ferals in pvp...everyone?  Wish i could stance dance it...



This has been an issue since beserk was implemented (back in wolk) i believe.  Locks had no way of getting away from a stealthed attack with beserk used.   We were essentially dead before it wore off (without healing).  I cant tell you how many times a feral would use this in arenas...with a dk knights similar ability...and be dead before they wear off.   Thats even with Goss healing in  arenas 2v2.

Its about time they took the "i win" button away.
Title: Re: Upcoming 4.0.6 Patch Notes
Post by: jalenos on January 11, 2011, 10:12:38 AM
Is there an addon that can tell me when a feral just clicked berserk?  :laugh:
Title: Re: Upcoming 4.0.6 Patch Notes
Post by: Oilslick on January 11, 2011, 10:38:52 AM
The changes to berzerk as discussed many times before all made sense toward the end of wotlk.  However, the proposed changes were being discussed b/c the immunity combined with zerk's boost to already insane burst capability was overboard.

That being said, the burst doesn't exist anymore with the talent tree changes already made - zerk is just an energy cost reduction and does not boost direct dmg whatsoever.  Even combined with savage roar - which now only boosts our white hit dmg, which in pve doesn't even make up a good 10% of our dmg if doing it right - you can imagine how much less of our dmg comes from that in pvp.  We're dotters again.  In the past, all of these were more or less combined total dmg increase buffs, but that's not the case anymore at all.

In terms of cc, a number of other abilities were given to several classes to make up for our ability to get away from snares and poly's - such as but not limited to scare beast and sleeping us.  Powershifting now ONLY removes snares btw - it no longer gets us out of traps or the multiple forms of frost tombs in the game now.

I would have instead, given that everything that led to berzerk being overpowered in the last expansion has all but been removed or changed or diminished, preferred the mechanic changed for pvp rather than removed, in much the same way that roots has been changed in pvp for much much shorter duration and extreme diminishing returns.  They could have changed it so "chance to remove fear or become immune" or even reduced the immunity duration - maybe even remove the immunity all together but let it break fear with a long cd.  The fact is, they gave us berzerk in the first place specifically to get out of fear and for no other reason.  The major contributions that made it overpowered no longer exist as a dotting class (with only two dots) with arp removed from the game.  Sure, they're boosting mangle and shred, but without the big FB's (or even the ability to perform an FB cause we'll need the cp's to spend on stuns), i think you and just about everyone else with any form of fear is going to find that ferals make for easy targets.

Don't get me wrong, I feel we needed to be nerfed.  The only classes that came close to us in pvp for this short time was blood/prot dk's (nasty nasty bonus overall dmg taken debuff) and warriors.  But what needed to be nerfed was our bleeds...they've accomplished that.  I would've taken a different approach to zerk - just seems like a leftover from arena qq at the end of last season that they forgot to impliment earlier, and now are implimenting for reasons that really no longer exist.
Title: Re: Upcoming 4.0.6 Patch Notes
Post by: Oilslick on January 11, 2011, 10:41:11 AM
Quote from: jalenos on January 11, 2011, 10:12:38 AM
Is there an addon that can tell me when a feral just clicked berserk?  :laugh:

Lol, yes, several!
Title: Re: Upcoming 4.0.6 Patch Notes
Post by: Grendeel on January 11, 2011, 11:12:53 AM
  Back in vanilla wow, dotting and fearing a player, while watching him die, was extremely overpowered. Lots of classes where given  specific mechanics to address this issue. This alone removed any cc capability of locks (save for minimal effects from the pet...which got blown up in 3 secs anyway).

This still left the possibility of  the fear dot dot dot ...dead scenerio.... after those new class mechanics where on cd.   So a further nerf to fear was introduced.   Fear broke on 20 percent damage taken.  Now if they had of removed those other class mechanics introduced to combat fear and left the "break on 20 percent damage"  all would have been ok.   Our cc would have been on par with most other class cc in the game.    But it wasnt and with all the specific fixes to "op fear" it rendered our cc almost useless (except against pallys).   Essentially we were a cloth class that "tanked". Later on,the removal of siphon life and other changes rendered "tanking" useless as well

Essentially in 1 v1 battle against most classes.....locks were considered a free kill for all of wolk.  They did work good with a healer still, but that healer had to be good and the comps had very little room for mistakes.

Bottom line is, with all the specific targets at nerfing fear, they eventually just reversed the situation to where locks were being raped (1v1)

This change just makes our cc on par with other cc (against druids).  Now we just have to get rid of them for the other classes too :P
Title: Re: Upcoming 4.0.6 Patch Notes
Post by: Oilslick on January 11, 2011, 12:16:24 PM
TBH gren, it's not so much the locks i'm worried about...it's the priests and warriors.

I think if the two players are similarly geared and both play well, it'll be a hard fought fairly even matchup when a lock faces a feral - more often the deciding factor simply being who got the jump on the other.

But priests and warriors is another story - they've just made it virtually impossible for a feral to take on a warrior with any confidence at all (we cannot powershift their snare)...god forbid a warrior disc priest combo.

And if hunters didn't give ferals enough hell already, they've got what feels like a million (+1 against a feral) cc abilities all on seperate cd's and still have enough burst to take us out before we ever even get close enough to land a single hit.

I have a feeling that what this means is there will be more changes coming as the arena season progresses and they see ferals fall not just a small amount, but a huge amount in the rankings...the only one's being a little higher up might be the tauren since they have a free stun  - which was always the case - but while in form now.

The key here isn't just for ferals - but rogues as well, without arp they took away our ability to burst in pvp - yet most other classes still have some real burst capability stashed away.

All that being said, who knows what'll happen as gear progresses.  Many of the classes appear broken right now but "aren't" b/c we're not in ilvl 400+ gear white stats yet.  This is the reason a dual wielding frost dk's spit out more dmg in unholy presence - and not a little, but a lot more, typically over 1k more dps.  Once their strength overwhelms the weapon dmg, they'll go back to frost presence.  I've heard claims that the lacking rogue and feral burst is due to intentionally keeping the starting gear in this xpack low enough to prevent min/maxing for gimick rotations like what we had with arp in wotlk - and so they can do better statistics analysis to prevent things like pure sbolt spam for destro locks back in BC as the cata story rages on.  It's a totally different and refreshing approach on Blizz' part this time around.

I'm thinking there will be a lot more changes down the line...despite all the QQ from people like me and others...despite how well two even skilled players match up.  I'm a bit afraid of the gear progression and class mechanics as they stand and feel that it will undoubtedly lead to imbalances in the game for the higher level of play.  I have to keep telling myself, blizz this time around has more or less pledged to keep their target audience where balance focused changes are concerned...as opposed to the arena stats gathering they used for major changes in the past.  That target audience is not the gladiator or the end game raider - it's the level 45 kid who got the game for christmas not getting frustrated enough to stop playing.  It's why we're seeing changes like "spell xx is now trained at level 3 instead of 71".
Title: Re: Upcoming 4.0.6 Patch Notes
Post by: dharq on January 11, 2011, 12:48:40 PM
My big concern with the change is how it creates even more difficulties for feral tanks in pve. That fear immunity mechanic came into play on a few bosses in the past, and it seems really odd to me that it's deemed too powerful for druids but not for prot warrs or blood dks. Why not just change the mechanic to only work on npc fears and make the fear immunity only a 5s duration? That'd be a simple change which wouldn't further nerf the class for tanking.
Title: Re: Upcoming 4.0.6 Patch Notes
Post by: Shadowwolf on January 11, 2011, 02:20:38 PM
Cause they have this foolish mantra that they dont want specific spells and stuff only for pvp and pve. It's a dumb rule because pvp will never be balanced like they want without screwing pve somehow. Like that lifebloom nerf they did in wrath jacking up the mana cost. A nerf that was entirely done for pvp and severely screwed up druid healing till they boosted nourish to compensate.

Pvp will never be balanced fairly because each class/race combo brings a different advantage over others and different disadvantages as well. For some reason tho they keep trying to strive for that perfect harmony that will never be and it screws pve play constantly.
Title: Re: Upcoming 4.0.6 Patch Notes
Post by: gossamer on January 11, 2011, 03:21:43 PM
Awesome...I see all good things! less mana used while healing for me! and maybe Gren and I can kill a feral in arenas + + in my book hahaha.

O0 O0 O0 O0

Goss
Title: Re: Upcoming 4.0.6 Patch Notes
Post by: Sethrow on January 11, 2011, 03:49:27 PM
but  no mana drain means no dead resto's or pallys
Title: Re: Upcoming 4.0.6 Patch Notes
Post by: Docsamson on January 15, 2011, 10:09:53 AM
I like that after removing all the duration-reduction mechanisms in place for all classes, and changing the baseline CC duration (effectively) from 7-8s to 10s, they've now made the duration 8s base. 
Title: Re: Upcoming 4.0.6 Patch Notes
Post by: Shadowwolf on January 25, 2011, 06:09:54 PM
Items listed in ORANGE are changed added on Jan 24th.

All other prior dates have been normalized in color to avoid confusion. Sorry for the delay
Title: Re: Upcoming 4.0.6 Patch Notes
Post by: Shadowwolf on January 29, 2011, 07:47:34 AM
PURPLE items are Jan 28th additions
Title: Re: Upcoming 4.0.6 Patch Notes
Post by: fiere redfern on January 29, 2011, 08:14:53 AM
[blizzard]Rare fishing poles now have a chance to be found in the Bag of Fishing Treasures earned via the Stormwind and Orgrimmar Fishing daily quests.[/blizzard]

That makes me a happy camper. Finally, some incentive to do the SW fishing quests. Though I still wish they'd add some vendor trash that you can only obtain if you're level 85.
Title: Re: Upcoming 4.0.6 Patch Notes
Post by: Shadowwolf on February 07, 2011, 11:01:50 AM
If you are not already aware, 4.0.6 is going live tomorrow =)

http://www.twguild.org/20110207129/wow/406-live-2-8-2011 (http://www.twguild.org/20110207129/wow/406-live-2-8-2011)