I dont know if this is a stealth patch change, or due to me wearing [item]Vengeful Gladiator's Dragonhide Gloves[/item], but I was able to use maim to interupt the Shade of Aran's spells just like a rogue or warrior.
Feral charge does this as well, but going bear form in that fight is rough becuase you lose out on percious DPS, and that fight, since he has no aggro table, is all about pouring it on.
Just FYI for feral druids...you can now, I think, be counted as a class that can interupt caster boss types.
Only with those gloves tho?
not sure...ill have to try a run with my old ones equipped...i just know previously maim didnt interupt anything on the shade...
I ran into a druid who had this in wsg last night. First he stealthed (got past my felpup stealth detection of course) and attacked me from behind, immobilizing me. After i trinketed out and cast howl, he switched to bear form and charged me, while i was casting a spell. It put all my shadow spells on a global cooldown and i was dead before they were up.
Your gonna see a lot of whining over this weapon if it becomes commonplace in a druids arsenal :P
Omg teh druids will be teh overpowered now!
Is there anything a druid can't do?
:p
Quote from: Trismus on November 29, 2007, 12:54:43 AM
Is there anything a druid can't do?
um...bathe.... as far as i can tell...
I lick myself clean prior to every raid
yeah but only in cat form
you every tried to lick bear fur? yech...
i dont have the instan rage / energy talents (i put mine into improved MOTW to help out our raids/runs), but if a druid did have those 5 points and was able to get instant rage or energy when switching forms, you could feral charge (silences), bash (stuns for 4-5 seconds), switch to cat form, mangle (get one combo point), then maim (stun and silence) all while the target is silenced and stunned....
Arc I respect you as a druid, so I'm not gonna be too harsh on you, but get those freaking points back into furor.
Improved MotW/GotW is a very, very minimal increase to the buff. Furor helps you tank and dps better - the raid is helped more by that than the handful of stats you gain from imp m/gotw. It's also great for pvp.
don't make me bust out the shame stick.
you do make good points, and I have thought about respeccing for that talent, BUT....
getting 10 rage when I shift into bear does not necessarily make me tank better...it would make me tank non-herioc normal mode dungeons better, where my 43% ish dodge (non-raid buffed) makes it hard to generate rage. I rarely, and only by special request, tank for a normal mode instance. There are a lot of great tanks who need the rep and gear who can tank it much better than I can. The major things that make me tank better are damage mitigation and threat generation, and against the mobs i routinely fight (heroic, kara, ZA, Gruuls) rage generation typically isnt an issue (although I am starting to have some issues with "easy" heroics).
Furor also is big for shift happy druids...which I am not. If im tanking, im in bear form...if im dpsing, im in cat form...if i need to go bear in cat gear than rage generation wont be an issue becuase my gear isnt suited for tanking and that rage bar will fill up easily. If I need to shift out for an innervate, im either in cat form dpsing, and my energy gain level is very fast, OR im tanking a boss and i need to time my innervate right...most bosses hit hard, which means again your rage bar fills fast.
Other than that instant 10 rage (which dwindles down to zero as your waiting for the priest or what have you to be ready), I dont see a PVE reason to get it. There are definitely arena and PVP uses there, where you would shift around more, but I am PVE orientated.
Now, improving mark of the wild by 35% may seem small, but consider the follwoing: this is the best buff in the game, and now you just improved it by over 1/3rd of its potency. We play in an environment where people panic if a buff is about to expire (cant lose those extra stats :), or you got a new item and it DOESNT have that all critical +12 AGI enchant on it. People clearly put a lot of value in additional stats, and rightly so. Imp MOTW improves everyones stats, meaning the raid now hits harder, lives longer, has more mana, and regens mana quicker, among other things. For a 5 man run, sure, the benefits may be debatable, but multiply that stat adder accross 10 people...now accross 25...now accross 40. Thats a HUGE group benefit, considering you just made the entire raid more powerful. Even if, say, it was a small amount per player...small amount per player x 25 = quite a bit.
I dont know about you, but some things that help me tank better are my healers healing more for tic, not running out of mana as fast, and the DPS killing the mob faster :)
My druid knowledge is quickly slipping away since mine is still 60 and unplayed for a year, but I remember that exploiting furor through shifting to gain bonus energy could net a nice dps increase in catform. But maybe the class or mechanics have changed and you don't get much benefit anymore?
well, but the time you shift out and shift back to get that energy, you would have regened it anyway, and you were autoattacking while your shifting, so i think your losing dps...
I beat Arc in a duel as a holy paladin before a Khara run.
True story!
<cough>bubble<cough>
Quote from: Arcdelad on November 30, 2007, 09:55:58 AM
<cough>bubble<cough>
LOL yeah true but you cycloned me, isn't that the druid version of teh legendary bubble :P?
He tried this on me yesterday. followed up by one of this loooong heals. Too bad I had my [item]Medallion of the Alliance[/item] popped that and finished the job ]:D
With form---> form shifts powershifting should be possible again, it was broken for awhile. obviously I can't try it out for myself but in the past it worked like this: grab an energy tick watch mod. When you run out of energy, shift cat---> cat right before the tick. You get the energy from furor and the energy tick simultaneously, enabling an instant shred every energy tick as long as your mana lasts.
MotW is not the best buff in the game, by far. Blessing of Kings is. I'm not one of those druids who cry about it, but 10% scaling to all stats is far superior to the static stats of MotW.
MotW vs Kings for you (stats taken from your armory):
MotW: 14 to all attributes. 340 armor, not multiplied by bear form. 25 resistances.
Talented MotW: 19 to all attributes. 459 armor, not multiplied by bear form. 34 resistances.
Kings: 27 str, 43 agi, 52 stam, 26 int, 15 spirit. The agi gives you 21 armor that scales with bearform, so 86 armor (I think?).
As far as buffs, go, the only advantage in MotW vs kings is the resistance. Talented MotW just really fails to impress me.
Furor isn't amazing for a straight up tank, although the shot of bonus rage is helpful at the start of pulls, and for fights where you have a chance to pop out and reshift. For straight DPS it's very nice, as long as your mana supply holds up you can essentially double your shred rate. Furor really comes into its own in a hybrid playstyle. On Nightbane for me, it was amazing. Powershifting to shred the dragon, rage when I went bear to round up skellies. It was also very useful on Illhoof, where I shift between bear and cat for tanking the imp and dpsing chains/illhoof. Furor was also amazing in pvp, especially considering all the snares I had to shift out of.
Spec as you will, like I said I respect you as a druid and I know you know what you're doing. Standard Disclaimer (http://www.idiot-dog.com/disclaimer.html) applies.
I used to give out MotW Rank 1 in MC. And for some reason, no one really even noticed ;D
thats why you rerolled an easy class like a mage :) good thing that food table doesnt have a low rank...
first of all panz...i love debate...i encourage it in my 3 and a half year old, and I am always one to question another person...especially if they are authority :) no need for any disclaimer...as long as you respect my right to formulate my own opinion and I do the same we should be kosher :)
having said that...I really dont see how powershifting would be benefitial....shred costs 60 energy...subtract 18 energy with the two talent points im sure you had, thats 42 energy total for shred. Powershifting gets you 40 energy, then resets the timer to get your next 20 energy.
Its important to remember that energy regeneration isnt like filling up the bathtub - it comes in increments, meaning you need to wait for your next energy refill tic to come in before you hit shred. It is not at all a doubling of your shredding. What it saves is one energy tic most likely...in that one energy tick I am re-applying fearie fire as needed and autoattacking...
I also have about 5k mana...that does not leave a lot of shiftage to be had before I go OOM...and going OOM stuck in elf form is about the biggest DPS killer I can think of. This would have very limited boss usage, and trash mobs die so fast powershifting just seems wasteful...
When i get to dps in a raid or 5 man, i am usually top or close to top in terms of dps, so the attack rotation not using furor must be working somehow :) i think ultimately too I dont want to have to be shifting out and back into cat to hopefully squeeze out an extra crit...if i were hardcore PVP i would definitely spec this, but this tactic seems anecdotal at best...
i dont know why your in bear form for kil'rek :) i "tank" him in cat form all the time...he hits like nasanna and your cat dps would help him drop a lot sooner...
I tried to find a video of a druid powershifting, best I could find was http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-7179811727830617447&q=druid+shifting&total=23&start=10&num=10&so=0&type=search&plindex=2
He's not trying for it, but watch his shifts from xxx--> cat. The shift is followed by an energy tick.
compare that video to http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=1219293637611701542&q=druid+shifting&total=23&start=0&num=10&so=0&type=search&plindex=1
where the druid does not have furor.
This means you can (starting with 100 energy)
Shred (58 energy)
Shred (16 energy)
*energy tick* (36 energy)
Ferocious bite (0 energy)
Shift cat--> cat (40 energy)
*energy tick* (60 energy)
Shred (18 energy)
instead of
Shred (58 energy)
Shred (16 energy)
*energy tick* (36 energy)
Ferocious Bite (0 energy)
wait
wait
*energy tick* (20 energy)
wait
wait
*energy tick* (40 energy)
wait
wait
*energy tick* (60 energy)
Shred
If you choose not to use FB, it looks like
Shred (58 energy)
Shred (16 energy)
*energy tick* (36 energy)
wait
wait
*energy tick* (56 energy)
Shred (14 energy)
wait
*energy tick* (34 energy)
wait
wait
*energy tick* (54 energy)
With Furor and not using FB, it looks like
Shred (58 energy)
Shred (16 energy)
*energy tick* (36 energy)
wait
wait
*energy tick* (56 energy)
Shred (14 energy)
shift cat--> cat (40 energy)
*energy tick* (60 energy)
Shred
the cat-->cat shift lets you skip two energy ticks. Moar shredz!
You do make a valid point about going OOM. Natural Shapeshifter ftw.
You're also right about your results speaking for themselves. That's why I've been very careful to make sure you know I'm not ridiculing you, because I hearts teh bare duridz.
I tank Kil'rek in bear form because a triple swipe crit does more damage than my mangles.
edit: I'm not shredding kil'rek /bonk
Im goign to respec and try it out panz...ill let you know my hands on findings hehehe