Alrighty, since that Priest in our ZG tonight was rude about his issues with allowing a Paladin to roll on [wowitem]Zulian Headdress[/wowitem], Gren suggested it might make a good thread for discussion on here.
My feeling on it is this, our healers in the guild are Paladins and Priests primarily, which, is probably the same for other guilds as well when it comes to raiding. While ive never played a Paladin myself, I have played with many, and have also played my Shaman which is similar who I chose to spec Restoration and every run except one SM with her, ive been the primary and only healer in an instance. Ive seen Druids, Paladins and Shamans outheal preists many times, it all depends on the player, spec and knowledge of the class. Theres been times I ran though places with some of you evern before my 2nd run as a Resto on Shadow and was still Balance specd but was the only healer.
Now, armor type, should have no bearing on the class if they can benefit from the stats based on the role they play for the guild or in group. Yes, priests have only cloth items to chose from and a Paladin can wear cloth, plate, mail, whatever. I would like to think theres a good reason they did this when designing the classes and the restrictions. Is it fair? Well, depending from what point you look at it yes and no. Is it fair a priest can only use cloth items and has a smaller pool to chose from in good gear? Prob not if you see it that way. However, is it fair to restrict a paladin who heals and is specd for healing to only plate items. No, its not. Why limit one class to make it "fair" for another, makes no sense.
Its simply who benefits from the stats benefits the guild and the group in the end. We've never restricted people on items based on class and never will nor have we assigned a "priority" for items for the same reasons. We've been restricting to a point on items like [wowitem]Primalist's Band[/wowitem] whereby it would make no sense to have a Warrior or Rogue roll on it when you have mana users in the group that need it. I think that is just common sense. When we have ever gotten an item that drops someone can use and benefit from, no one has ever been denied a chance to it if they can use it.
I think in the end, stats are the important factor unless you are melee, then you have to balance armor with stats because youre going to be taking hits. Thats just how I see it at least.
I don't think an item is more or less of an improvement for someone just because it doesn't fit their standard. If a paladin heals, and he/she wants a +heal item that drops, by all means they should roll. We're here to enjoy the game, and I think part of enjoying it and keeping it casual is that we allow people to roll on items that they want. I would not begrudge a paladin or druid rolling on a cloth piece, nor should a hunter dislike rolling against a rogue, a 'lock against a mage or so on. I seriously doubt anyone is going to make any outrageous rolls like a warrior rolling on something with +spell damage or anything of the like that will upset everyone, and I think imparting specific restrictions on who gets what is another step to making us a raid-esque guild. We should all be happy that fellow guildies got something they like rather than be upset that we didn't in my opinion.
Emma
While I agree so far on what's been said, I'd also like to point out that gear designed for multiple classes are given the least restrictive armor class so any can wear. Take the [wowitem]Spider Belt[/wowitem] for example. It's cloth so that any class can wear it; not so that only cloth wearers could use it. The designers take this into account when making other items too. Cloth gear that's great for healing is meant so that ANY class that heals and can wear cloth should be able to aquire and use it, not just "cloth-only" wearers. Granted it's considered good etiquette to let the more restrictive armor classes first crack at it, but there's a reason plate wearers aren't restricted to just plate/mail armor.
while i'd like to think the designers let pallies wear leather, cloth and mail for a reason i think that it wasn't a very well thought out reason. Has any warrior out there found any reason to wear cloth....ever??? Has any hunter out there wornt cloth for any reason? Hope not...there's no cloth out there to benefit them. Anyone can say, ya but even though i can wear plate that cloth is better then my plate item....even so, i feel that priests get the shaft here because they have a FAR smaller pool of items to chose from then any other class in the game. And here we're going to give it away to any class that can wear it?
While i understand the need to not restrict items or give them priority, i think we should still keep some common sense about what item goes where. Plate DOES drop just as often as cloth, yes for pallies, just happens to be that the bosses we are killing loot tables drop blues mostly for cloths. Once we get to the other bosses cloth people wont see as much blue cloth stuff drop.
So YES it does benefit the healer class, however, flash heal benefits more from +heals then the flash heal pallies have. I have about +250 healing on my pally, my flash heals without blessing of light add about 40 more hp to the heal....not a whole lot from that 250. Mainly because its a quick cast and an initial low amount of hp. Priests on the other hand have a slower flash heal that heals for a lot more, a LOT more. They have far more benefit from +healing then pallies do. For this reason pallies gear sometimes is more about how much mana per 5 sec u regen over how much +healing u have. Obviously pallies will gain the full benefit of their +healing if they use their big heal but those are incredibly slow, and highly mana ineffecient, a few of those and you'll be oom before you know it. Pally plate gear is more suited for pallies with sometimes more +heal or int then cloth would have and hence why priests can't use it.
End point, while we think we're helping the raid I feel we are slowing it down by giving away cloth to pallies if the priests could use it. If they have better, then im all for letting them have it, but if a priest can use it more, then they should get priority. By not doing this, we're letting our priests progress slower and we're wasting good gear on the pallies because they will replace them with the plate version drops. Aside all that though, there's also the fact that our priests are the most important element of our raid, and the hardest to get, I think that we should reward them a little more then saying another class can use it too. I've lvled a priest and a pally to 60, i got utterly sick of staring at health bars at raids and it takes a really brave kind of person to be able to put up with it and enjoy it in my opinion. They have the toughest job in any raid as well.
Im all for not restricting gear as long as there is common sense involved, but I would personally make an exception for priests and give them priority in this case because they have so little to roll on already. If we're going to let priests roll on dmg gear, pallies on cloth, hunters on warrior tanking weapons and resto druids on rogue gear, we're going to be in ZG for a very very long time. But then again, if this is what everyone wants to do(not the part about being in zg for a long time), then I'll go with it. Im just here to have fun, but if ppl are looking to progress at a decent rate then we should rethink about loot distribution somewhat.
I just don't know how I feel about this. If a plate piece dropped that had +healing and +int, etc., I wouldn't expect a warrior to roll on it just because it had slightly more armor on it than his. I'd expect it to be given to the pallies. I guess my personal opinion would be that I think the priests should have been given priority to that item. It seems normally we get alot of plate drops over cloth drops, but I could be wrong I guess. If there were no priests that needed it, I would say give it to the other classes then that would upgrade from it, but likely be replaced soon.
As far as itemization goes, it seems that there are plenty of items in the loot table for pallies to roll on without stepping on priests toes, same goes for druids (in the horde guild, we have a really good feral druid who passes on all the tier drops just due to focus it has on healing). And in this instance, they have limited the ability to roll on items to certain classes.
This isn't to say that there aren't items that aren't able to be used by multiple classes because we all know there certainly are - check the loot tables http://wow-loot.com/raid_zg.htm (Best fits are 4-5 stars)
If a paladin wanted flowing ritual robes, I'd disagree with that need. And if a Warrior wanted a plate item with +int and +healing, just because it has more AC, but less stam, def, str, agi, etc (Depending on spec) I'd have to question their knowledge of the class.
Some items are meant to be used by all classes, but with many raid drops - cloth and such, I think is where the line needs to be drawn.
for a perfect example of this, I suggest anyone who has doubts about what shadow says run an instance with Voctavian...with all due respect to our great priests (I have said before I feel we have some of the best priests in Alexstrazza), Voc does just as good a job as they do healing....he just doesnt have shackle....Voc uses quite a bit of cloth and leather, even though he could wear plate...
This seems pretty clear to me...
If both classes can benefit, then they should both roll. It's fair and equitable.
I have been on both sides of this coin and ,even though I can be frustrated by my luck, I don't expect someone to decline a roll.
You can't make comparisons between two classes because even though many have similar roles, each play their parts differently.
I understand the frustration of losing the roll and the disappointment in missing out on a beneficial item due to random fate.
It is still the best method to distribute items that many classes and players could benefit from.
Quote from: Krieg on October 16, 2006, 09:12:34 AM
This seems pretty clear to me...
If both classes can benefit, then they should both roll. It's fair and equitable.
I have been on both sides of this coin and ,even though I can be frustrated by my luck, I don't expect someone to decline a roll.
You can't make comparisons between two classes because even though many have similar roles, each play their parts differently.
I understand the frustration of losing the roll and the disappointment in missing out on a beneficial item due to random fate.
It is still the best method to distribute items that many classes and players could benefit from.
the issue is more about how MUCH the class benefits. Like i said before, pallies don't get as much benefit from cloth healing gear as priests do, and i explained why. We're clearly not stupid enough to give a warrior a pally item just because it has a little more armor, but it gets blurry when we have a pally and a priest who want the same cloth item. Giving a class an item that would benefit one class more then another should prolly be discussed with both sides before just saying, 'class x and class y, etc: roll on {item}'
I've seen hunters roll on weapons with 'chance on hit' or just because they look cool while others lost out when they could have greatly benefitted while the hunter instead gimped himself only to replace his weapon shortly after realizing it was a mistake...its happened a lot of times, not just with hunters but u get the idea.
Ultimately, the benefit of an item completely depends upon how the toon is specced and how they are played. In a raid, any healer who uses large, high mana heals will primarily need +int (for a larger mana pool) and +spi (for mana regen between casts). A spam healer, who is constantly casting lower rank (or fast cast) heals will benefit with +healing gear. The benefit of +healing is the same for a slow cast or multiple fast casts, provided the spam healer is casting continuously. Spam healing tends to have higher overhealing, but provided you dont run out of mana, it is great for supporting the whole raid.
According to wowwiki, the benefit is 42% for instant and 1.5 sec cast spells, so a pally (flash of light) at +400 healing will heal about 168 extra points than with no +healing equipment. I have confirmed this with my testing (Kaid beat me in too many duels..) :)
Ultimately, this is all about a team, if the healers have kept the tanks vertical, the boss will go down.
Voc
Well Geno and Lyte pretty much covered everything i wouldve had to say on this 8)
Just to add i bit, I dont think allowing pallys to have equal priority over priests, is being fair. This gives the pally twice as many loot opportunites as a priest imo. Yes, pallys can benefit from the plus healing gear (as Voc has shown in many raids), however a priest can benefit more from them (as Geno pointed out). I see nothing wrong with allowing priests first priority over pallys for cloth, provided the item is needed. If we dont do this, then we are going to have an unbalanced progression, in terms of gear between different classes.
For individual character development, no priorities on cloth items would be the way to go. However, in the best interest of the guild and raid, wouldnt it be better to have classes develop equally as time goes by?
With that said, whichever way this ends up, im quite satisfied it will not cause problems with the guild. When you have a guild where you see an arguement: "you take it" no "you take it" no " i want u to have that drop"., i dont think any issues will arise. I never dreamt id see 2 people arguing why the other person should take the drop :P
Am I safe in assuming that the priest and paladin in question here were pickups? If so, that brings up a major concern because it could tarnish our guild's image. In guild, we all understand and try to be fair distributing loot to each other. I think we're all good about rolling on things only when we really need them--not just rolling out of greed.
I think there needs to be some clarification though for cases when we do have pickup members and such.
I don't think it's unreasonable to restrict the first choice on an item to the class that's most "needy"... For example, with armor, classes are limited to specific types--not all classes will benefit equally from it. For example, priests can only use cloth, so if a cloth +healing item drops, I don't think it's incredibly harsh to restrict it to priests--other classes have higher rank armors they can wear. I don't think it's unreasonable to give the first option on a cloth item to only those classes that are completely restricted to it. If no one who's restricted to only that item is needing it, then I think allowing anyone who needs it to roll is perfectly fair.
At the same time, weapons, rings, cloaks, etc are not as heavily restricted. I think the open rolling policy is very fitting there because any class that can use that item can benefit equally from it.
Basically, I just think armor items are a bit different from weapons or others in that some classes are restricted to only cloth for upgrades--while others have 4 pools of armor to choose from. I also think it's better for our reputation when we pickup random fillers to have this type of policy--it appears more fair and impartial.
The guild image isnt at risk in any way, the Priest was a PUG and won that very helm off the Snake, in which it dropped again off the bat and no more priests were in the group. Suddenly letting a Pally roll on it became a huge debate thereafter. The pally that won the roll was Randomperson, who does nothing but heal in groups as hes specd for it all the way.
Another Pally we had that was PUGd even saw it as normal to do what we did but apparently the Priest felt pallys had no right to that item at all. His justification and I quote "No other classes can beat priests in healing, the WoW website says so".
In the sense of if we had 2 priests in the group and one had the other 1 still needed it, yes id be more inclined to try and give the priest dibs, but in all honesty, a healer is a healer regardless of class as I see it personally. Would I want a pally to deprive a priest of good gear, no, but I also want to be able to help that pally do thier job as well as possible too.
I play both a pally and a priest so this issue is quite important to me.
First off, i would like to say that i think it was very poor form for this priest to agree to come to ZG at lvl 58, roll on AND win the item in question, get pissed off and not heal during the last boss fight (think he was hoping that we would wipe), and then proceed to criticize the guild and it's loot policy. Personally, i think this is one of the fairest and most considerate guilds on the realm, and am proud to be part of it.
Back to the question at hand. I am a bit divided.
Despite the source and the offence way it was brought up, i think there is a valid point here. Priests have it tough in that they can ONLY wear cloth while other healing classes have other options. As such, i think that priests should have the first opportunity to roll on cloth healing items. If none of the priests want, then i think it fair to let others roll. This would hold true on a plate piece with intel or mana regen. If no pally's want it and a warrior does, by all means, give them a chance to roll for it.
Would i have liked to have that head piece and would it have helped with my healing as a pally? Absolutely!! But, i would not want to take it at the expense of one of our priests. As a pally, i will have more opportunities to improve my gear.
Having said that, i would say that the best healing gear in the game is primarily cloth. That is where the difficulty comes in. Seems that bliz thinks that healing stats and increased armour class are contraindicated.
>sigh< time to reroll a rogue i think.....
Some cloth items have better healing stats for paladins. Windsocket wears mail, plate, and even cloth I believe at times.
that they do Mag, and yup, ive seen him in a dress at times, hehe.
Ok, my 2 cents:
Whoever can use the +heal should be able to roll on it. Just like those who can use +dmg for spells.
Just because pallies can wear plate, mail, leather and cloth there is no reason they shouldn't be able to roll on something that makes them better as a player.
Yes, I understand that priests (and resto druids) need the +heal as well and are restricted to fewer types of armor, but it only hurts the group to tell our pallies that they don't get nicer +healing until all our priests have it. Another thing of note is that once we progress further some pieces of equipment will be restricted to one class or only make sense to one class, while some things will make sense for multiple classes ([Mana Igniting Cord]).
IMO healing pallies can and should roll on +healing gear if it improves what they have and they can wear it, it only makes sense to me...
</end 2 cents>
Just to add to what I said earlier...
When it comes to the difference between whether a priest and paladin should roll for a +healing item, then it is only fair to offer it to all who can use it because regardless of what opinions are, both would use the loot to the best of their ability which benefits the raid. It is when you start to put qualifiers on loot that you tweak the fairness innately built into the game. Who utilizes an item more or benefits more is purely subjective.
so your saying if i want to spec and gear my pally towards high spell crits and holy dmg(which only cloth +dmg gear will offer) u guys wouldn't mind me rolling on cloths like the mana igniting cord, or a few nice things that would help bump my crit and holy dmg such as this rare drop from ZG
http://wow.allakhazam.com/db/item.html?witem=20032
I have a feeling if i rolled on that with my pally i'd hear a great many objections lol...then again...maybe not. I wouldn't ever want to roll on it but if a pally did roll for it for a higher spell crit and more holy dmg, would you be against it?
I dont believe anyone would because its your spec and if you planned to use it no one would have an issue.
As a once balance druid, most +spell dmg items dont come in leather, sadly they just dont. Why? Well because you have mages and locks that can only wear cloth that benefit in +spelldmg and the game seems to tailor leather drops towards healing or rogue-like specs. To be a more effective Moonkin id have to wear cloth similar to a mage or lock, but why should I be forced to only wear leather because im a druid but can clearly benefit from cloth items. Its the same thing with pallys wearing +healing cloth.
I think its fairly clear to most of us at this point that the game as it sits now is very bias in its drops for specific talent builds. Thats obvious by the bonuses of the PvP gear and the Tier sets. They leave little room for irregularities in roles from the mainstream when it comes to staying with gear specific for your "class".
Does this mean a pally should be able to roll on Devout should a priest need it, no of course not. However if no priests needed that specific devout item and the pally could benefit in healing from that item, I dont see why they should be limited. So lets put this into a better perspective shall we...
The mace Lyte got in ZG a few weeks back [wowitem]22713[/wowitem]. Both pallys and priests can benefit from that this is not debated, so why should cloth armor not of a Tier set be any different just because they can wear plate? Im failing to see why theres a line drawn specifically because a priest can only wear cloth but pallys arent restricted. If a pally is doing nothing but healing in the group, exactly why does it matter if they are wearing plate, leather or cloth. The total armor means nothing because they arent in a melee role. If priests could wear plate, would you expect them to help offtank, doubt it, youd want them to heal so wouldnt it make sense to allow the classes doing the healing to gather gear that will make them better at doing just that?
Im sorry, just seems silly to me to limit a paladin to only plate because thats the best they can wear and priests can only wear cloth.
I'm guessing, being a priest, that I would be someone raising "objections" to you rolling on some big +heal item, as you classify. In my mind if you are mainly bringing Geno on raids (as opposed to Iwuv or Elhaym), and she's spec'd to heal, and that's how you use her in raids, you are as entitled to any healing item, cloth or otherwise, as I am. However I would "object" if you were rarely using Geno, or she was not being used to heal in which case the item is not being used as intended.
Like I've said before, I think we're fair people here, not loot obsessed, so I'm not sure this is as much of an issue as we've made it. I would not roll on an item that is a slight improvement for myself (say a few +heal points or a couple base stats) against someone for who that item would be a huge improvement. In turn, if there is an item that is a significant improvement for me, I would have no qualms about rolling on it whether it "should" be for another class. I don't think an explicit code of rolling and distribution is needed for us at this point.
Employing a little reason and displaying very little greed, as individuals, has served us well up until now and I don't see those two things failing yet.
Emma
(comma spamming FTW)
Sadly, I dont think this would have ever come up if that guy hadnt made critisism to how we roll on things as a guild. Which I agree entirely with Kaid in that he had no right to say what he did especially in the way he said it and to take an attitude about it when it didnt even impact him was just special. I was glad that guy Minichomp spoke up and said soemthing to him about it being rude to do what he did.
Its very true, as a guild we are all very courteous as to who should get what item and like Gren said, never since I started playing this game would I ever expect to see 2 people argue for the other taking an item instead of themselves as they feel the other would benefit from it more, haha. Its happened here so many times tho "No you take it, you need it more. No no I insist, you take it." A very unique situation I think that only we have come to see here amongst ourselves which speaks well for us as a guild.
This was just a discussion to kind of vent out points from peoples perspectives on the situation. Keeping an open channel of opinions and discussion here on topics like this keeps us all aware of the different sides to which some of us see things, sometimes as people we tend to look at things from our point of view only and dont always realize theres a flip side to every coin. =)
Heads or ...what? :D
Emma
Quote from: Kaidelina on October 16, 2006, 01:07:40 PM>sigh< time to reroll a rogue i think.....
If you don't like loot issues, try finding daggers without devoting your life to 'em :P
Anyhow. I've played both a priest and a pally before, and I have mixed feelings. If the pally is a healer, then I see the need to roll on +healing gear. However, holy priests heal, can
only heal, and can't wear leather, mail, or plate. I'd say that within the guild, let everyone roll who needs the item. When PUG pallies are involved, I'd rather the item goes to our hardworking priests. Yes, I know that's unfair, but the priests have to get a break somewhere.
heh i usually raid on my hunter as i prefer to, but ever so rarely we need more healing or aoe. And of course i will pass on any pally gear while im on my pally should someone else really want it more....and without a doubt i wouldn't roll on cloth if a priest could use it...i guess its just me.
The other day in ZG I realized at the end of the raid that Plate wearers were allowed to roll for cloth gear (cause I wasn't paying that much attention to loot distribution at the time it was happening). That caused an issue with a non-guildy in the raid. Now I don't want to discuss that guy cause I totally agree that he was an asswipe. I also didn't want to discuss it in raid chat since I didn't consider that to be the appropriate time or place, and I didn't want to get involved in the discussion in guild chat to ensure people didn't get to emotional/defensive/offensive ect. I figured this would be the appropriate forum to hash out my concerns and start a discussion on the issue.
I have always operated under the understanding that cloth wearers get first crack at all cloth loot (and leather wearers get first shot at leather ect..). Leather, mail and plate wearers would be allowed to roll only if all cloth wearers passed. I see no reason why it should be any different in the bigger raids. I assumed that was standard policy but after realizing plate wearers got to bid on cloth gear I am now confused as to wether there is different set of rules for 20+raids, cause I've never seen that happen in any 10 or 5 man raid. If there is a different policy for 20 man raids, I would appreciate clarification.
I am looking forward to hearing other people's thoughts. thanks :)
p.s. As an aside, I just want to add that the loot didn't involve anything I could have used, I just believe there is a general principle of fairness that is the issue here.
p.s.s. Just so that there is a little more info. for members who were not there, pally's were rolling for cloth healing gear with a non-guildy priest.
p.s.s.s. Not that I'm pissing on the pally's or anything, or implying fault. I love pally's, they always rez me when i die (which happens quite a bit unfortunately :-[) Just wanted to give members a little more specific info. so that they could make informed comments.
Hey Val
Just wanted to let you know we have a whole other thread about what you were talking about. We've been talking about it since Shadow posted after the ZG run when it happened. Here's the link for ya:
http://forum.twilightonalex.com/index.php?topic=742.0
Quote from: Lyte on October 16, 2006, 11:18:46 PM
Hey Val
Just wanted to let you know we have a whole other thread about what you were talking about. We've been talking about it since Shadow posted after the ZG run when it happened. Here's the link for ya:
http://forum.twilightonalex.com/index.php?topic=742.0
Hehe, merged em.
Seems we are pretty split on this issue.
Well here is my 2 cents- I don't see how you can not be split on this when you have hybrid classes. Priests, Restro Druids and Healing Pallys can all benefit from cloth items. That said I think that our guild members are very undertanding of the needs of others. I have passed & have seen others pass on items that they could have used but would benefit others more. We never seem to have a roll on equipment problem when it is just us. The PUG priest won this item, this was the second one to drop - I have to wonder why this priest needed two of them. We all have experiences with pug runs & with other guilds & know what it is like to be denied a chance on loot, to see it go to their other guild member, who certainly didn't need it. I think we need to keep in mind that the issue was caused by a non-guild player. I can not imagine this ever happening with two guild members.
Quote from: Jandris on October 17, 2006, 06:32:25 AM
Well here is my 2 cents- I don't see how you can not be split on this when you have hybrid classes. Priests, Restro Druids and Healing Pallys can all benefit from cloth items. That said I think that our guild members are very undertanding of the needs of others. I have passed & have seen others pass on items that they could have used but would benefit others more. We never seem to have a roll on equipment problem when it is just us. The PUG priest won this item, this was the second one to drop - I have to wonder why this priest needed two of them. We all have experiences with pug runs & with other guilds & know what it is like to be denied a chance on loot, to see it go to their other guild member, who certainly didn't need it. I think we need to keep in mind that the issue was caused by a non-guild player. I can not imagine this ever happening with two guild members.
its not so much about other ppl we take with us, at least not that I see, when another person runs with our guild we make the loot rules and if they dont like it they can leave, I dont think we need to change all our loot rules just because a few people in the raid aren't twilight members. Aside for what gear goes to what class we have a very fair loot rule, need on coins and 1 blue or 1 epic. This gives everyone a chance at winning something. I think i feel so strongly on this point because when I was a priest it always sucked to see all the other classes rolling on stuff I could only wish I was able to roll on. Like on dmg gear(i was holy spec'ed but who says I dont like to pvp once in a while and dish out my own damage). Letting pallies roll on leather and cloth literarly triples their chances of winning something vs. any other class. Priests and other clothies get few options when it comes to drops for their class and having another class compete with them makes it all the more difficult to upgrade.
With our guild where we dont have greedy people, its definetly making a lot of this discussion trivial because its no big deal if a pally wins a cloth when a priest rolled as well. But I think its nice to be FAIR, I really don't think its fair to the toughest and rarest class of the game to say that sorry, that mage can use this cloth better cuz its dmg based and your holy speced...oh no wait, sorry that pally is also holy speced and he would like to upgrade his gear with cloth.
When plate for pallies drops in ZG priests can't upgrade, but the pallies who rolled on that cloth will gladly replace it even if it gimps their stats in one area just by a little. Another 300 armor vs. +5healing and maybe a few int...ya i'd replace that cloth in a heartbeat. That very same cloth that a priest could have still been using.
Perhaps all this isn't so bad however if we let pallies roll on the more common blue cloth drops that we usually see from the bosses, but when it starts coming to epics or far more rare blues that are geared towards healing and are cloth, I think we should def give priests a priority.
Quote from: un4given_one on October 16, 2006, 08:16:52 PM
If you don't like loot issues, try finding daggers without devoting your life to 'em :P
Heh, good point ;)
Still can't say it didn't hurt when Gren and I were doing world dragons with Bloodlust and Identity Crisis, [wowitem]Gloves of Delusional Power[/wowitem] dropped and a druid's 97 beat my 93....they wanted "damage gear" :(
Emma