Haste is GREAT...

[Arcdelad]

...for a bear form druid

I think all tanks accross the board (pallies, warriors, druids, and Gren) are starting to feel the pressure from our super high DPS players like Mel, Nix, Shadow/Koth, Apolla, Gren, etc etc etc. Druids arent like pallies either, who 100% of the time can reduce ALL dps threat through blessing of salvation. We(and warriors) get the full thing - unreduced, 100% threat generation from DPS. Then you add these damn zone buffs like Auch or Hellfire where everyone gets 5% more damage...yeesh.

So...what can we druid tanks do to keep up with the Joneses?

One EASY thing to do is to get the 2% threat enchant on your gloves. It is fairly inexpensive (8 primal life is the worst of it), and is essentially like enchanting EVERYONE in the group with subtetly on their cloaks (-2% threat).

Another and newer thing we can do is stack haste, which has become a lot easier to do with the recent badge items. Haste means we will be auto attacking a lot more (well...not a LOT more, but enough to make a difference) which will help with rage generation and also add threat from those attacks. The following items NOT ONLY are just flat out great for your bear set if you IGNORED HASTE, they also have a ton of haste as a bonus. So...with these you get a huge upgrade to your bear set in avoidance AND mitigation, and you also get some really great haste.

[item]Embrace of Everlasting Prowess[/item]
[item]Tameless Breeches[/item]
[item]Handwraps of the Aggressor[/item]

[fiere redfern]

Funny thing... every single one of those items was on my list of stuff to get >.>

Who wants to run a heroic? XD

[Gutboy]

One EASY thing to do is to get the 2% threat enchant on your gloves. It is fairly inexpensive (8 primal life is the worst of it), and is essentially like enchanting EVERYONE in the group with subtetly on their cloaks (-2% threat).

This is often discussed on warrior gear lists too. Do we have someone in the guild who can do it?

GB

[Arcdelad]

Gren can for one...any high level enchanter exalted with sha'tar can I believe...I think its a must have for any druid or warrior...

[Grendeel]

Good post Arc.

I think its also a must for any high level dpser to get the -2% threat enchant for the cloak.   The cloak is a rather wasted spot for an enchant for casters , so this really is the best one for us.


edit

i meant casters for high level dpsers.....though that was implied in the second sentence      Thks JR!

[JohnnieRat]

Any high level caster DPS... Melee gets +12 agil and we're always dying anyways with cleaves, whirlwinds, things that stomp, emit gas, 110% aggro threshhold rather than 120% or whatever you casters get (which is BS by the way).
12 agil helps us dodge those attacks lol

[Grendeel]

Its 130% to steal aggro

I read somewhere the reason for this is because if it was 100 or 110%  casters could effectively manage to ping pong a boss with aggro, thus having him never actually attacking someone.  Just running back and forth between 2 casters

[Vengeance]

Ive heard boss parry increases its attack timer temporarily...can any tank explain this?
Cuz if so haste will just make you get more parries and more damage.

[Grendeel]

Ive heard boss parry increases its attack timer temporarily...can any tank explain this?
Cuz if so haste will just make you get more parries and more damage.

Funny you should mention that Dep,  I just read something talking about melee dps and parry.  I certainly know very little about melee dps mechanics and this thing i read might have been just for a specific boss but it said; "if u are parrying a fair bit, then u are to close to the boss".  The boss has a big hit window and you should be able to stand far enough away to not worry about parrying most attacks.

[khader]

Ive heard boss parry increases its attack timer temporarily...can any tank explain this?
Cuz if so haste will just make you get more parries and more damage.

Funny you should mention that Dep,  I just read something talking about melee dps and parry.  I certainly know very little about melee dps mechanics and this thing i read might have been just for a specific boss but it said; "if u are parrying a fair bit, then u are to close to the boss".  The boss has a big hit window and you should be able to stand far enough away to not worry about parrying most attacks.

Parried attacks result in the next attack coming quicker.  This is very important concept as it can get tanks killed unexpectedly.

The following excerpt is from the Evil Empire tank guide on http://www.tankspot.com.  Tone might be a bit harsh but the point is very important.

There's something about parry
Melee DPS types attacking from the front = wrong. When you parry, your swing timer for next attack is reduced by up to 40%, to a minimum of 20% of your normal swing time. We have pretty good parsing indicating that this happens for mobs as well. So, what that means is that retarded rogue standing beside you is causing the boss to eat your Shield Block charges faster and getting you crushed. Note that the parry range is about 180 degrees frontal. People can think they aren't in parry range and still get parried. Yell at your DPS to wake the hell up and pay attention. More than that, your attack followed by Sunder/Devastate/Shield Slam/Revenge can trigger parries as well. In the worst case, you can get yourself killed if the boss gets lucky on your own attacks!

What can I do about it?


    - Tell your melee DPS to not be retards and get behind the mob. Even if they don't know that bosses get the attack speed benefit from parry, they should know that they're hurting their own damage output by being in front anyway. If they don't know this, replace them.
    - Be ready to reposition to accommodate pets/shadowfiends/etc. Saves you the parry pain while increasing DPS, mana regen, etc, since you kindly put them behind the mob. Everyone wins.
    - Expertise. Bosses have about 5.6% dodge and 12-14% parry, so you won't reduce any boss' parry chance to zero unless you stack more expertise than is wise. However, enough expertise to eliminate their dodges will reduce parries by about half, in addition to increasing your threat output. Expertise is an important tank stat.

ANY parried attack will cause the next attack to happen faster than normal.  One of the more important reasons for melee DPS to stay behind mobs - especially bosses.  For all tanks this can result in a spike of damage healers are not prepared to handle.  Its a bigger problem for Warrior tanks as the faster attacks can use up the 2 charges on Shield Block exposing them to crushing blows while its still on CD. 

Tank attacks can be parried and this is where Expertise becomes important.  Expertise reduces the chances of your attacks being dodged or parried.  Its now desired for tanks to stack some Expertise to reduce chance of being parried.  Warrior tank gear now has quite a bit of Expertise. Not sure about Druid or Paladin gear although I think it some Expertise would be desirable.

[Air]

Ive heard boss parry increases its attack timer temporarily...can any tank explain this?
Cuz if so haste will just make you get more parries and more damage.

From http://elitistjerks.com/f31/t18771-protection_warrior_guide/ Section VII C. Parry Mechanics. 

This is good thread, not just for warriors but other tanks to and for anyone who wants to learn more about what tanks go threw.  Alot of theory crafting to digest though.

Because parried attacks by a boss decrease the boss’s swing timer, parried attacks increase the boss’s DPS on the tank. Reducing these parries will not only reduce the total amount of damage you take, but it will do so by reducing burst damage. Parried repercussions occur quickly, and often appear as multiple attacks landing in the same second to the tank. Indeed if enough parries occur in a given period of time, many bosses can yield “unhealable damage” to even the most well equipped tanks.

[LastDyingBreath]

[item]Brooch of Deftness[/item] comes highly rated as a tank item with loads 'o stam and a good amount of expertise.

[Nixphire]

I'm really not understanding what expertise does? How does that differ from +hit? I'm slowly raising a pallie tank and would assume I need that.
+hit only reduces the change that you have to miss a target (the normal level based miss rate) and expertise is the change to not get parried/dodged/(glancing?)/etc?

[Air]

...due to weapon expertise, tanking warriors get the full effect of both parry and dodge reduction, gaining a 0.5% chance to hit the boss, which will stack with any hit rating they already have. Hit rating reduces your chance to miss, and therefore a capped hit rating will not be impaired by expertise rating which reduces your chance to be dodged or parried. Expertise applies to all abilities a warrior uses that can be dodged or parried (devastate, shield slam, white attacks, etc).

For paladins

Expertise affects auto-attack and Seal of Blood. I'm unsure of the exact "cap" on expertise, though some quick WWS browsing seems to indicate an approximately 6% dodge rate and 12% parry rate on bosses.