Swipe issues? lawls

[Arcdelad]

I havent had ANY problems with swipe at all - I think most people dpsing behind me tanking would agree =) These changes honestly are just going to make druids OP'ed becuase there are some crappy druids out there that need to L2Play. Ah well.

[blizzard]Swipe threat increase
We think we might try increasing threat by 50% because that is something easy to hotfix. That should buy you enough globals to do other things, and provide enough wiggle room if you get a target out of the area for one Swipe. We'll consider additional changes after we've had a chance to see how that plays out. (Source)

Swipe (Source)
I haven't commented on Swipe in some time because a lot of different arguments tend to get mashed together. That in turn makes it hard for us to detect if the ability actually isn't doing its job, or if [some] druids just want it to work differently, or if [some] druids want more different kinds of buttons to push.

Here are the arguments I typically see, roughly ranked in what I think is most to least important.


Swipe doesn't generate enough sustained threat.
Swipe doesn't generate enough burst threat.
Swipe's angle and target requirement make it hard to use.
Swipe is okay, but you want other abilities to throw in there with it (and without giving Swipe a cooldown).

[...] Part of my point was that many of you are posting something to the effect of "All druids agree that the main problem is X," when even within a few posts you see wildly different opinions.

We aren't going to turn Swipe into Thunder Clap, and I don't think many of you are asking for that (though a few are).

The problem is if we changed the cone or if we changed the threat or if we added another ability, then a large portion of this thread at least would respond "But you didn't fix the problem."

So the kinds of discussions we are having are what changes to make to Swipe (if any) that will solve some of these problems without turning Swipe into Thunder Clap.

[...] Right, but imagine we increased the threat generated by swipe by 400% (just for the sake of argument). Now it is possible to say:

Swipe generates so much threat that I can use Mangle, Maul, Lacerate, Bash, Feral Charge or Demo Roar without worrying about losing aggro.

I can spam Swipe, but why? After a hit or two I have more than enough threat. I can afford to save it even.

If the threat was high enough, it could have a cooldown to enforce not spamming it. (We'd be very reluctant to do this though.)

Swipe has a positional requirement which requires a little more planning or skill to use than Consecrate, but in return it generates a lot more threat.

My point above was that we are not going to make everybody happy, so you will probably find yourselves less disappointed if you don't get tied to the One True change that will fix Swipe for you.

It is very easy to look over at another character and think "Man, if I just had that ability, I could do my job so much better." That's a good thing. It means that other classes' abilities are so cool or useful that you want them. But for the same reason we are hesitant to give them to you because then the ability is less special and the classes all end up feeling really similar. If you ever switch from druid to warrior or paladin or DK, we want you to have to relearn the class. Make sense?

We want druids to be great AE tanks, and it may be that you aren't quite there yet. But we will almost certainly do it without removing the positional requirement AND adding a lot of threat to Swipe.
[/blizzard]

AND....so we can now ninja hunter weapons:

[blizzard]Polearms: Now trainable by Druids.[/blizzard]

[Arcdelad]

[blizzard]The change for Swipe to generate an additional 50% threat is now live. Please let us know how it goes.[/blizzard]

/snicker

what else can i get that i dont need? how about some more HP...ive seen bears with less than 28k! maybe some more armor? ooh ooh - more AP in bear form, since 5.5k isnt enough!

...and a move that brews a pot of coffee, adds the right amount of cream, and brings it to my computer stand...yeah!

[Tolwen]

Can I heal in bear form? kktnxbye
Arc it's true that we didn't needed it but we had to always keep spamming swipe with a crazy aoe group and that gets kindda boring after a while imo.

[Tolwen]

Now i just want to dual wield plz!

[dharq]

Um, I don't fully get the polearm change... since when are there poles that benefit ferals more than their trusty feral bonus staff? Sure some are nice, but I just don't see them being a HUGE boost. Granted, I am a big fan of spears, so it'll look cool, at least.

Re: dual wield... I've always thought it would be really cool for ferals to have a talent deep in the tree that let them dual wield. I mean, how cool would it be to run around toting two huge bear paws on your hands in human form? Then again, I don't know how much of an actual benefit this would be since, like poles, there aren't a huge number of one-handers out there with feral bonuses... Oh, and all of them existed pre-TBC... hrm... and all unique.

[Arcdelad]

well...they are chaging the way ferals get AP from weapons now...currently we have staves and maces, where the attack speed and the damage ranges are irrevelant - what matters for us is how much STR, AGI, +CRIT and such are on the weapons, and THEN they bridge the gap past that with the feral AP stat...

Observe: [item]Staff of Trickery[/item]

After the patch, all items LOSE feral AP - as a stat you see on weapons it will completely vanish...since losing 1845 AP would be....erm...a little, tiny, nerf (lol) they are going to adjust these weapons - they will either have their damage ranges adjusted much higher, OR stats will be added like more AGI, STR and maybe a flat AP adder similar to how feral AP is, but usable by others now.

This means that druids now care about damage on weapons, and since we arent JUST looking for items with feral AP anymore, other weapons suddenly become viable options for us, like polearms (that may traditionally cater to hunters with tons of AGI - which is also the bread and butter druid stat)...

we like to laugh at airplay about rolling on [item]Inevitable Defeat[/item], but its actually NOT a joke lol...post patch that is one sweet feral druid item =) hope you get a high roll air

[Nixphire]

I didn't know Strength was a hunter stat. Melee hunters?

[JohnnieRat]

I will choke any hunter who rolls on that against warrs or pallies

[Air]

Death Knight, not Hunter...LOL.

It's a really good tank weapon for DK's cause of the amount of stamina, expertise and agility.  No crap haste rating on it.  And one of the higher dps weapons in naxx.

My choice's in tank weapons are: [item]Demise[/item], [item]Death's Bite[/item], and [item]Inevitable Defeat[/item]

[Tolwen]

Air..If I were you I would stop linking cool maces here...you're just giving us more choices

[Air]

Don't worry, I'll make sure I'm loot master.  So you dirty druids don't take my lootz 

[dharq]

Um, I know I've been gone a while and all, but when did hunters start using 2h maces?  That totally looks like a feral weapon to me...

[Arcdelad]

hunters will start using 'feral staves' now like the staff i posted above - when it gets adjusted itll have great damage ranges PLUS tons of AGI on it, which hunters love (duh)....i dont know about the maces...

air - the first two you linked most likely wouldnt be rolled on by a feral - what makes the third one so appealing is its high amount of AGI (which gives druids dodge - one of our premier stacking stats), its high STA (again, druid priority), its huge amount of STR (not a priority IMO, but great to have for threat generation), and its EXPERTISE (druids need about 442 expertise to be capped in bear)...

you can have the first two....but im need rolling the third =)