*Firelands* [Beth'tilec] - Tactic Discussion

[khader]

I found the videos from this group are pretty good.

Cataclysm - Beth'tilac : Firelands Boss Strategy Guide

[Deadlymijo]

just like we were tank and healer only up top

[Grendeel]

Given the numbers involved on the final phase, i wouldnt pay much attention to our tries on it.  Something is seriously skewed.   As Apolla said, roughly 18k dps is required to finish off Beth.  Given our best attempt had him at ~50 percent, that would mean we were only doing roughly 9k dps on avg.   That seems so wrong that im guessing other factors where involved....  bugginess, boss healing, or whatever. I think further attempts need to be made to get a better perspective on the fight.  With that said, i have suggestions on how to handle this fight

Phase 1

We did pretty good on this so i only have a couple adjustments id like to see.  We have 5 dps  which i think should be assigned as follows:  1 on the spinners, 2 on the spiderlings and 2 on the boss.

The one on spinners i think should be a melee type because they will have 4ish of them to kill.   There splash damage  will make it happen faster than a caster using single target spells.  As well, im guessing they can mitigate more incoming damage (if spinners do melee attacks) better than a clothie.

The 2 on spindlings: I think we should change to a lock and hunter.  Our mage is a pure dps machine and allowing her to focus strictly on a drone would be most beneficial .  A hunter on adds goes without saying.   As for a lock, they can glyph shadowflame and have a 70 percent movement reduction effect applied to multiple mobs (lasts 5 secs and on a short cd i think...like 12 secs).  As well a lock has shadowfury which is a 3 sec aoe stun.  Between the 2 class' cc and dps, those adds should be handled easily

The 2 on the drone should be able to do a ton of damage.  Someone needs to be aware of spiderling spawns and announce it in vent.  Id think either of these 2 dps would be the best candidates to do this because they will be doing a minimal amount of moving

Our positioning should always be in the centre of the room.  Grouped up as much as possible to make healing easier for us.  We could even have the boss near the centre...where the spinners should be killed...allowing splash damage on the drone to hit the spinners and splash damage on spinners to hit the drone.   Though we have to make sure that drone isnt facing the centre where most will be standing.  The 2 on spiderlings will use the centre as a base and move out to kill spiderlings...and then back once done.

Killing priority would be   Drone dpsers targets   drone > spinners > spiderlings
                                     Spiderlings  targets     spiderlings > drone > spinners
                                     Spinner       targets    spinnners > drone > spiderlings

I think with practise this could get us into the last phase in very good shape

Phase 2

Firstly, we will only be able to get one ability off on the boss before he shoots up top.   This should be the most damaging ability present in the raid.   Bane of Havoc from a lock is ideal (15 percent of all damage done by the lock is applied to the baned target). I sucked at it most of the time...missing for various reasons (though i had it figured out at the end). With this and tank damage done on Beth, i think we can have her at ~75 percent when she lands..give or take a few.

When she lands,  its absolutely critical that we get all those spiderlings that are still up killed fast........and far away from the boss.  Khadar mentioned they seemed to have a large range for when they healed the boss.  If we can do this, it will make the final phase much easier to manage.  

Again we are stacking up in the middle of the room....Im not sure of the range (or if there is any) of the boss abilities, but ideallly we have the boss facing away from the range.   The melee will be positioned behind the boss, with range dps and heals slightly behind melee dps.  So that everyone is in range of aoe healing.

For now, i think the timing of our heroism and timing for  tranq/hymm/shammy circle is critical.  The bosses damage ramps up over time and these things are better off saved for when the healing becomes intensive.  At what stage that is i do not know.  Our healers would be best to know this, whether its 3, 5 or 10 stacks of frenzy.  Pick a number that will trigger our use of these things.  Lets say its 10.  Lets have a rotation to start using these aoe heals...using them when healing is the most intense.  As well this is the time to pop heroism.   That 30 percent haste increase will be critical to lesson the intensity of the enormous amounts of damage being done and allow us to stretch out our dps time as much as possible.  As for dps, it doesnt matter if heroism is used at the start of the final phase or midway through it.  Hopefully this will give us enough time to kill Beth.  Its tank and spank for dpsers so the more time everyone is alive, the better chance we will have to down this boss.


One thing we can also do (depends on how things are going) is send one dps up top for the first devastation (not second or third).  In our past tries it seemed we can get away with one less dps on a drone because we have killed a few spinners before the first drone spawns.  Any extra damage done on the boss before the final phase is always helpful.

As for tanks, i couldnt presume to offer any suggestions.....other than to stay away from the raid if u get the "kiss" debuff

I think if we practice this and get it down to routine execution, Beth will seem like an easy fight .....after a while

[khader]

Not nearly as much going on in the fight for tanks as healers and dps.

p1 seems to be going fine.
Tank on the ground needs to keep the drones faced away from the raid and keep the drone away from the spiderlings.  Letting the tank know where spiderlings are coming from is important in helping to keep the drone from consuming them.

Tank up on the web needs to help pull down spinners before going up top.  Up on top, the tank should use cooldown's effectively until healer comes up. Jump down when Beth's energy gets down to 300-400.

The transition to p2 is key.  As p2, starts killing the spawning spiderlings should be priority over everything else since they heal Beth for 10% of her health.  Beth was able to absorb the spiderlings at a far distance so slowing/stopping them at their spawn point and killing asap is crucial.  I could see Beth turning and healing but was unable to see the spiderlings so judging the distance wasn't possible.  If Beth heals, the dps requirements go well above 18k.

In p2 the tanks need to position themselves so they can dps the boss throughout the phase, even with the kiss of death debuff.  Tanks should be positioned on Beth in same way as Brutallus in Sunwell or Argaloth in Baradin Hold.  Tanks and DPS form a triangle - DPS,melee and ranged, behind boss, one tank on front right and one tank on front left.  When current tank is debuffed, the other tank taunts.  The off tank can remain on the boss and dps since ranged, melee and the other tank are out of range of being hit.

[khader]

Link to log reports for K Bec Koi 10 normal Beth'tilac kill.  Others are pretty similar to this for Beth kills

K Bec Koi
http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/rt-smvaokfpifa1czxo/sum/damageDone/?s=0&e=370

compare with one of our better attempts
http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/1a6fjczfddtx3p7j/sum/damageDone/?s=5528&e=5921

Looks like they are squeezing alot more dps out during that last phase.

You can check the boxes to add others folks to the graph. About 19:24 on the graphs Beth starts p2.

[Grendeel]

Thats a significant difference in dps for sure

During the burn phase they top out at 60k raid dps and dont drop below 40k for the entire phase
We top out at 35k and dont drop below 25k.  Something is seriously going wrong with our dps.  Its a tank and spank fight at this point and our numbers should be much much higher.  Considering our last fight against Shannox we sustained around 19k throughout the fight.  Considering our Shannox fight during the burn phase....which requires movement, our raid dps doesnt really drop below 35k  sustained.

http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/n74lv6a3wmclzydm/sum/damageDone/?s=5580&e=5976

Im not sure if people are missing their rotations, or dont have damage cds available for the burn phase, or simply just panicking.  Our numbers should be  higher on the burn phase of Beth than Shannox.  In actuality they are much much much lower.  There is too much difference to be a gear thing imo...mind boggling.

Oh and judging from the quebec log i now understand why raiding guilds were frantically searching for moonkins after 4.2 was released...insane numbers

[Shadowwolf]

Yup, when I try as balance even with non-optimized gear I can kick some ass. Unfortunately we need healers and honestly I like healing too, so I guess im a masochist =P

What we did last night with a higher end DPS up top all 3 parts of P1 helped a lot. Perhaps if we down her once she becomes a regular kill people will get more comfortable with the fight and we may not have to do it that way for long.