How to properly gear an Affliction Warlock for End-game raiding. v0.7

[capnpop]

I will insist that +hit isn't valuable for those starting kara because the gearing for pre-kara doesn't put a large portion of item stat budget into +hit gear. 

if you mean kara is an easier instance, and therefore one can be lazier about ones stats, then i'd ask why we dont yet have kara on farm.

I could give you a few reasons.

1) we don't raid "hardcore." If we did we'd have the "Core" group that ALWAYS ran together with devoted backups for certain bosses that required different group compositions.

2) As a result of 1) we have people that are new running nearly every time and some times there are people that switch out mid-run for a replacement

3) the goal isn't to farm, it's to have fun.  The result equates to a more relaxed raiding environment which means we may not down all of kara, but what we do will be enjoyable.

i find it hard to believe youd want to WASTE the dkp getting most of the "upgrades" (most of which are hardly upgrades) from kara.

We don't use DKP, you'd "waste" a winning roll on an upgrade.  An upgrade is an upgrade...no ifs ands or buts about it...

As for your gear analysis...well, we don't use DKP...we don't use DKP...we don't use DKP...we don't use DKP...

I'm not saying that +hit isn't valuable...I'm saying that it isn't necessary and that simply, to stack such +hit before you start gearing up is wasteful.  Additionally, you are gearing up contingent upon two of the most expensive professions to level up and one that can quickly become costly quickly.  (Enchanting and JCing are simply painful and Tailoring cost me plenty as well just to get it to 360 or whatever it is...)


TL: DR version: We don't use DKP.  Upgrade = upgrade.  +hit is okay, but not the end-all of raiding.  We aren't hardcore raiders...

[herothirtythree]

just because WE dont use DKP doesnt mean the wow community doesnt.
and since i know you know how dkp works, i would assume you understand what i mean when i say sometimes upgrades arent worth the dkp.

again, until 202, 1 Spell Hit = 1.125 Spell Damage

not good on trash, yes, but on Boss class mobs, the first 202 spell hit are worth more then equivalant spell damage.

[Shadowwolf]

Spell hit is important, I dont believe Cap is saying that. What he is saying is, for beginning Karazhan, spell +hit should not take a priority to other stats on your gear. Not until events beyond Karazhan and the later bosses like Prince and Nightbane does spell hit become overtly important. Kara is a 10 person raid, and a resist on a DoT will simply have you need to recast it. On a 25 raid, lets use Gruul for example, a resist and recast is a loss in DPS which for a fight thats basically a DPS race against time, thats pretty crucial. Hes not saying to avoid spell +hit till after Kara, hes saying you should work on other stat areas first and then worry about spell hit after those are at a good level.

moroes, curator, and prince are considered the same level to hit as lady vashj, archimonde, and illidan.  if its important to hit boss mobs in ssc, hyjal and bt, its important to hit them in kara.  if you mean kara is an easier instance, and therefore one can be lazier about ones stats, then i'd ask why we dont yet have kara on farm.

Maybe im reading into things, but I find that comment a little insulting. Specifically the comment about Kara not being on "Farm". We've cleared Kara many times before, its something we can do, the goal here like Cap pointed out isnt to farm a raid instance, its to have fun and to gear up others in the guild so we can venture into raid instances beyond it. Yes Kara is easier than the likes of Gruul's, SSC and TK, but by no means is it to be taken lightly or "lazy", it simply comes with a different, less rigorous set of requirements to participate in compared to that of the 25 instances. Blizz doesnt expect people to walk into Kara in T4 or better like items, they know most everyone at the best is going to start off in there in 70 dungeon/heroic blues and epics, so the instances has been tuned for that and gets progressively harder as you reach the end. Every raid instance has its own unwritten requirements for success, and as you go to each those requirements become more stringent. Each instance before the other has drops and gear to prepare you for the one next on the list of progression, Kara rep plans have +frost resist gear items, SSC has a need for +frost resist on some bosses for certain classes, if it were possible to skip out rolling on Kara gear and get everything you need in a heroic dungeon, 70 instance or craft able item, nothing would prevent every guild on the server from walking into BT and killing Illidan. =P

i find it hard to believe youd want to WASTE the dkp getting most of the "upgrades" (most of which are hardly upgrades) from kara.

We dont require DKP to get items, if its an upgrade and you were present to participate on the effort to down the boss, /roll 100 is how we work it. Im not going to turn this into a DKP thread, we've all been down that road many times in the recent past. Getting back to that quote tho, are you suggesting that you would pass on a Kara item in the hopes of holding out for something better in raids beyond? That doesnt work, because when we reach raids like TK, having someone along in all pre-Kara items isnt going to work for that raid instance. They will either be taking a dirt nap on most of the fights or doing less DPS than pets in comparison to the rest of the raid. Im afraid im not understanding your point on that.

[capnpop]

What he is saying is, for beginning Karazhan, spell +hit should not take a priority to other stats on your gear.

Exactly.

Hes not saying to avoid spell +hit till after Kara, hes saying you should work on other stat areas first and then worry about spell hit after those are at a good level.

Yep.

Maybe im reading into things, but I find that comment a little insulting.

Ditto...

... they know most everyone at the best is going to start off in there in 70 dungeon/heroic blues and epics ..

D3 set for locks has roughly 44 +hit...i had the sheet for it up earlier..

Getting back to that quote tho, are you suggesting that you would pass on a Kara item in the hopes of holding out for something better in raids beyond?

That's what it seems like to me.

They will either be taking a dirt nap on most of the fights or doing less DPS than pets in comparison to the rest of the raid.

He slipped on a bar of soap...

[herothirtythree]

this has gotten a bit out of hand, my fault not negligible

This theorycraft isnt for this guild, its for the community of warlocks.  Please believe me when i say my intention isn't to raise heck about us implementing a DKP system; me bringing DKP up as justification that this theorycraft could potentially be used as a gearing guide is simply an acknowledgment that the warcraft guild community as a majority has choosen a DKP driven loot system.

Point bluntly taken about this being a casual raid environment. It's the reason i chose to apply here.  And i wish i could retract the lazy statement, it was tacky.

This theorycraft is meant to give an affliction warlock wishing to gear up pre-kara a competitive edge with less of a reliance to get EVERY gear upgrade before moving on to gruuls.

because as ALL of you know, its far easier to run a 5 man like SL then it is to run Kara.  And when the gear finally does drop that you need, less people to roll against makes acquiring it easier. 
an example is [wowitem]Nether Core's Control Rod[/wowitem] VS [wowitem]Tirisfal Wand of Ascendancy[/wowitem]
one is obviously an upgrade, but your going to have a far easier time getting ahold of the control rod, then rolling against every other lock or mage on the 12% chance that it drops on that particular run.

[herothirtythree]

Also this discussion has fallen FAR off track.  The theorycraft specifically notes simple rules, and one of them being that all gear must come from pre-kara dungeons.

so regardless of what does and doesnt drop in kara, this thread should focus on gear suggestions that are easier to obtain pre kara then those already on the List.

[capnpop]

if the sole goal is to get +hit capped there is nothing you can really do differently...

[wowitem]Belt of Blasting[/wowitem] would help your hit and give you more +dmg but it would be a drop in stamina and int.  It also costs an arm and a leg...

The fundamental issue isn't "Can you be hit capped pre-Kara?" I know it can be done, someone did it already and was packing over 1k +dmg (prolly +shadow).  The point is that it simply isn't worth it.  With 202 +hit you are ready to walk into any Kara/Gruul's lair encounter but your utility is gone.  You lack so much for hitpoints that the question isn't "will the AoE kill me?" it's "when will the AoE kill me?" One unlucky Shatter for me puts me to 30% hps, one unlucky shatter for you makes you quite dead...

[Grendeel]

Heh kinda how i thought this thread would go.  One last comment from me

This is a first draft of a guide im creating to help warlocks who are trying to decide which gear choices will help them achieve the overall stats they need for Kara/Gruul raiding

Rest assured the common practice for gearing for kara and gruul will become bgs.   The season 1 arena gear, for almost all classes, is better than anything you will get pre kara (and much of Kara for that matter).  It can be atttained solo and will be much quicker and cheaper to get than running instances.

[herothirtythree]

One unlucky Shatter for me puts me to 30% hps, one unlucky shatter for you makes you quite dead...

correct me if im wrong but soulshatter being "unlucky" is a resist. and its not effected by suppression.

if i could only think of a way to lower the chance my spells would be resisted!

[capnpop]

shatter...not soulshatter...

result from gronn lord's grasp...physical damage that can hit for over 8k...occurs every 30 secs or so...

if only i could think of something to increase my hps...