Death Knight DPS FAQ

Rocknlock · February 21, 2009, 03:57:18 PM

See? Why can't I do that in our raids? $:-\$

Tony · February 21, 2009, 04:03:35 PM

Quote from: dharq on February 21, 2009, 03:57:03 PM
Yeah, I saw the blue talk about no DKs ever depending on a disease-free build, and that is kinda troubling... I mean, with the notable exception of warlocks who still derive a lot of DPS from dots, most classes are able to hit right off the bat with their big DPS strikes... The 3 GCDs that it takes us to get up to speed really troubles me.

I have found only one time for recommending unholy pres at the moment, and that's during the KT fight (especially 25-man)... the extra .5 sec off GCD gives just a little more leeway for interrupting his frost bolts, and we don't seem to be lacking in pure, raw DPS on him.

Oh, and Ad, something to add into your rotation is UB if you have it. You only have to refresh once every 20 seconds, and depending on your spec and the 40 RP cost now, you can actually generate more RP than you can use w/ 2 DCs per RPD now. You can also use it w/ Gargoyle up and not worry about running OORP. Also, it ticks off of [item]Extract of Necromantic Power[/item].

Thanks for the tip bro, I actually use UB quite frequently. Depending on the situation, I will alternate between UB and DC in the RPD part of the rotation. If I have 100% RP and I'm not gonna pop my gargoyle, I will usually use both in the dump. I have noticed that since I went to unholy, I have been using it too much and not using DC enough. I will try to adjust tonight and see how the WWS reports turns out.

God, that trinket is hawt. I was just talking today about how I need to replace my last green item, the tiny box of horrors. Here's to hoping...

Quote from: Rocknlock on February 21, 2009, 03:49:28 PM
Yeah, I just edited my post cause I forgot to add to use unholy presence as well. Be sure to gem STR and not get cheap with the AP gems!

BTW, I am taking donations for those...

Rocknlock · February 21, 2009, 04:12:44 PM

Get the darkmooncard: greatness trinket if you can stand to save up for it

90 str passive and 300 on proc, then when your rune of the fallen crusader procs for the 30% str deal, you're a beast!

It also stacks with mirrior of truth trinket

dharq · February 21, 2009, 04:26:44 PM

Here's for hoping they add a 3rd or 4th trinket slot in the future... oh, and sigils that have stats on them like wands do! Tired of crappy sigils.

Rocknlock · February 21, 2009, 04:31:26 PM

Thats a good idea, stats on sigils and idols for our dk critbots

Tony · February 21, 2009, 04:32:31 PM

9k gold for the darkmoon set.... wow, thats gonna take me a while

Rocknlock · February 21, 2009, 04:42:44 PM

seen one for 8.5k yesterday, price seems to be dropping kinda quickly. Or just a lot of people have the deck atm, so price may go back up to 11-12k eventually. Its a lot of AP though when it comes to raid buffing and rune procs

capnpop · February 21, 2009, 05:31:19 PM

The diseaseless build is just spamming HSx2, OBx2, dump, HSx6, dump, repeat.

Armory has me at 342 haste (over 10%) and while I am noticing that in my rotation I'm having runes pop up before I've burned all my RP I'm not sure if that's negative or positive at this point.

My rotation:

IT, PS, HB, BSx2, dump
IT, PS, HB, ITx2, dump
I keep this up until I screw up the rotation then it is:

HB, IT, PS, BSx2, dump
HB, IT, PS, ITx2, dump

This rotation is a bit easier since the same 2 runes are always available at the same time. Also, if the fight is nearing an end I can toss in a freezing fog proc to give me a little more dps and basically get back into my first rotation again.

That recount screen shot is the Gorefiend fight, it lasted under 60 seconds, single target dps.

Tony · February 21, 2009, 11:41:14 PM

Yea, I was just going over the WWS report from tonight. I really think that we should all aim for this if they dont change our trees too much. It's gonna take alot more runs thru to get a bunch of decent 1h, although I read that you can put out quite a bit with the blues from ebon blade... I'll have to read up some more, its too late for that right now.... /yawn

capnpop · February 22, 2009, 12:18:55 AM

Quote from: Diseous on February 21, 2009, 11:41:14 PM
Yea, I was just going over the WWS report from tonight. I really think that we should all aim for this if they dont change our trees too much. It's gonna take alot more runs thru to get a bunch of decent 1h, although I read that you can put out quite a bit with the blues from ebon blade... I'll have to read up some more, its too late for that right now.... /yawn

The trees will be changed substantially come 3.1 so don't go shooting for 1h's quite yet. Also, play what you are comfortable with. For me, going from 17/0/54 to my DW spec I spent a while researching and a while beating on a dummy getting my rotation down so that I'm comfortable with what I'm supposed to do. If you don't want to be a DWing DK then don't worry about it. At the end of the raid the overall dps is roughly the same.

Tony · February 22, 2009, 06:30:32 AM

I've tried it, and like it. Honestly I dont like 17/0/54 at all, but it puts out more dps than my blood spec. I am more comfortable speced blood so I get what you are saying. However... if I have a potential that I am not working towards, than thats not really a good thing. We are damage dealers. Nothing else. If I can put out more damage using a different build, than maybe we can get Patchwerk down faster. What, were we 15 seconds over the allotted time last night?

QuoteAt the end of the raid the overall dps is roughly the same.

I dont think I am looking at that thing right then, cause it looks like we are all across the board. How is it roughly the same? If I arrange it by DPS, you are first, and the next Death Knight comes in 9th. Total damage out it looks a little closer, but I am nowhere near you guys. Is gear really effecting me THAT much?

capnpop · February 22, 2009, 12:27:49 PM

Quote from: Diseous on February 22, 2009, 06:30:32 AM
I've tried it, and like it. Honestly I dont like 17/0/54 at all, but it puts out more dps than my blood spec. I am more comfortable speced blood so I get what you are saying. However... if I have a potential that I am not working towards, than thats not really a good thing. We are damage dealers. Nothing else. If I can put out more damage using a different build, than maybe we can get Patchwerk down faster. What, were we 15 seconds over the allotted time last night?

Just spec whatever you are comfortable with and then do your best, that is all we expect. If you want to change to do more damage that's fine, but you'll also be dealing with the learning curve of a new spec and the initial dps loss as a result.

Quote from: Diseous on February 22, 2009, 06:30:32 AM
I dont think I am looking at that thing right then, cause it looks like we are all across the board. How is it roughly the same? If I arrange it by DPS, you are first, and the next Death Knight comes in 9th. Total damage out it looks a little closer, but I am nowhere near you guys. Is gear really effecting me THAT much?

The dps is subject to several things. For example, look at the Thaddius fight (http://wowwebstats.com/fuxw5oy35thbw?s=258284-304188). That shows me at over 7k dps which greatly skews the final dps numbers, especially when 2 DKs didn't get to utilize the buff to get the same skewed numbers (you and Rock (tchofdeath)). Also, if you look at part 1 of the raid (WWS from 2/20) you see me doing well on Anub and Maex. Anub I avoided 2-3 of those ground spike deals which gave me more time on target than the other dps who ate it, and Maex I didn't get webbed to the wall at all which gave me 100% of my dps time on the boss, so the fight mechanics worked in my favor for much of these runs (I got lucky).

Finally, if you want to look at a straight up dps race (Patchwerk) I topped the meter there but I likely would've been 2nd or lower if I hadn't gotten Hysteria from Air (Avaira) for those 30 seconds. Also note that three of the DKs are relatively close on dps (3300-3500s+) and while 2 DKs are significantly higher on the meter, we've been there from the start, which I'd argue is a result of experience and gear (to some degree) rather than spec.

As an additional note: Looking at your gear you are under the hit cap by about 3.24% for melee swings/strikes and 4.24% under the spell hit cap for stuff like IT and DC (I think DC uses spell hit and maybe UB). While this is somewhat minor a hit instead of a miss means more dps. (Compared to Tchofdeath who is 2.22% under cap (1.22% with a Draenei around) and relies less on spells as blood (although he does have a 5.22% spell miss chance on bosses))

Tony · February 22, 2009, 05:41:58 PM

Quote from: capnpop on February 22, 2009, 12:27:49 PM

As an additional note: Looking at your gear you are under the hit cap by about 3.24% for melee swings/strikes and 4.24% under the spell hit cap for stuff like IT and DC (I think DC uses spell hit and maybe UB). While this is somewhat minor a hit instead of a miss means more dps. (Compared to Tchofdeath who is 2.22% under cap (1.22% with a Draenei around) and relies less on spells as blood (although he does have a 5.22% spell miss chance on bosses))

So according to my gear and shortfall of hit cap, would it benefit me more to spec as blood instead of unholy for the time being (which uses more melee as opposed to spells)?

capnpop · February 22, 2009, 06:02:02 PM

Quote from: Diseous on February 22, 2009, 05:41:58 PM
Quote from: capnpop on February 22, 2009, 12:27:49 PM

As an additional note: Looking at your gear you are under the hit cap by about 3.24% for melee swings/strikes and 4.24% under the spell hit cap for stuff like IT and DC (I think DC uses spell hit and maybe UB). While this is somewhat minor a hit instead of a miss means more dps. (Compared to Tchofdeath who is 2.22% under cap (1.22% with a Draenei around) and relies less on spells as blood (although he does have a 5.22% spell miss chance on bosses))

So according to my gear and shortfall of hit cap, would it benefit me more to spec as blood instead of unholy for the time being (which uses more melee as opposed to spells)?

Nope, not saying that at all. I'm just saying that your hit cap could contribute to your dps being lower. Respecing blood will leave you with the ~3% below cap and would likely drop your spell hit lower (as well as mess up your current rotation and force you to re-learn rotations).

dharq · February 23, 2009, 11:46:05 AM

Based on what I've read (mostly EJ), it appears DK stats need to be prioritized as

HR -> Str -> Exp -> CR/AP

Hit Rating provides the biggest benefit to DPS until you hit 289 or 290 rating (w/ Virulence.. it's around 360 w/o). If you aren't there, get there. That will max your melee hit chance w/ 2handers, and with buffs and talents, you'll be at spell hit cap as well. DW needs higher to hit "cap" for melee, but since much of the DPS from DW comes from spell dmg, it's not as big a deal.. and you need a crapload of HR to hit cap as DW for melee. For blood the increase per point is actually higher than it is for frost or unholy before 289 hit rating.

Str is better than AP for all DKs. It scales better, we have talents that improve it even more, and it benefits our spells even more than AP with impurity thrown in.. since every pt of str is worth 2.1 AP once BoK is factored in.

Expertise cap for DKs is about 172 exp rating. That puts you at dodge cap.

Right now, my biggest problem are hit and exp caps. I had to gem for +hit, and that sucked, but until I get some tier gear w/ +hit on it, it's gotta be... My exp rating is crap. Gotta get it up, have no where to gain it at the moment. Again, a gear issue. But basically, if you miss or get dodged, you get 0 dps for that moment in time... Very little will drop your dps faster.

What I'm finding is that my dps is actually a lot worse in comparison to my total dmg dealt. I'm just not very "bursty".. I'm sure it's a rotation issue; I just haven't found the slack yet.

So Ad, according to EJ, get your hit rating up asap. Especially if you go back to blood.