Author Topic: Aggro management  (Read 1654 times)

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Offline un4

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Re: Aggro management
« Reply #15 on: November 10, 2006, 06:24:45 PM »
I totally shut a warrior down by shielding him once.  I don't know if they've changed it though.
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Kaidelina

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Re: Aggro management
« Reply #16 on: November 13, 2006, 12:20:35 PM »
Alrighty, it is now definative.  Thanks to Terrank... an no Terr, i was not exacting some sort of twisted revenge on you ;)...i now know that shielding does indeed impact rage.

What I did was have Terrank run up to a mob and start taking hits.  ;D  Then we would watch rage and see at what rate it would build.  After a bit, we would kill the mob and go to the next one.  On the next one, i would shield him and repeat the process.  We did this several times.

The conclusion is that there is NO rage build up due to damage taken, while the shield was up on Terrank. 

Having said this, the rage contribution due to damage taken seems to be minor compared to rage build up from attacking.  I think that i will still use shield but more judiciously.

Thanks againi Terr  :)
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Offline Shadowwolf

Re: Aggro management
« Reply #17 on: November 13, 2006, 12:23:20 PM »
hmmm, maybe a pop after 2 or 3 sunders? Id think aggro is sufficient for a shield by then to insure the mob doesnt charge on you. That is of course unless its Renataki in ZG whos just all over the damn place every 30 seconds sunders or not. lol
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Offline Kothnok

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Re: Aggro management
« Reply #18 on: November 13, 2006, 12:33:37 PM »
I want to weigh in here about shielding and rage due to damage taken.  While your experiment showed that it was only a small amount of rage gained while taking damage, that was only against one opponent.  I think it would make a significant difference facing many opponents at once.

A couple of night ago, while in UD Strat at the stage after the big undead golems just outside the Baron, that swarm of zombies came out.  Wrath perished on the last golem just before this fight and our pally didn't rez him in time (another story...) to help fight them with AOE.  We actually didn't wipe during that fight due to the rage I generated by all those zombies attacking me.  I was swiping 3 at a time constantly thanks to my rage bar being permanently full.  I lived without someone healing me the whole time because my Frenzied Regeneration never ran out of rage to heal me (so I got a ton of healing for the entire duration of the ability).  If I had been shielded, there is no way I could have generated enough rage from damage to have done that.

just my 2c
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Genoism

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Re: Aggro management
« Reply #19 on: November 14, 2006, 11:31:18 AM »
im not 100% but i think the harder the mob hits the more rage you generate. So if you were fighting trash mobs it may not have seemed like you were generating a lot of rage but I've noticed our tanks build up rate extremely quickly on bosses in zg....i always figured it was because they got hit hard.

Offline Emmalina

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Re: Aggro management
« Reply #20 on: November 14, 2006, 11:50:10 AM »
I guess I always though the majority of a warrior's/druid's rage was built up from damage done rather than damage taken, but that shows how much I know about tanking. The reasoning behind popping the shield before combat is it essentially gives you a free ~1000hp heal, assuming you drink real quick after shielding but before the tank engages. If it does in fact hinder rage generation, there is really no reason to use shield at all because once in combat it becomes its usual, highly mana inefficient spell. I never had a tank say anything to me about it, but maybe they simply didn't notice. I'll make it a habit that I'll try to get out of  ;)

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Kaidelina

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Re: Aggro management
« Reply #21 on: November 14, 2006, 02:31:45 PM »
Well, i think that i will still shield the tank before the first pull... for the reasons that emma stated.  The bosses in ZG and elsewhere hit hard enough that the shield will not last very long anyhow (maybe one or two hits), and it does give a 'free heal' with no healer aggro.

During battle however, i think that i will refrain from shielding the tanks because it draws a large amount of aggro and is mana inefficient.  I will however, use it in an emergency if i need the extra time to get off a heal.  I also have no issue shielding casters since they don't have a lot of hit points and go down fast if they are being hit.  It just serves to buy a bit of time.  :)

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Offline un4

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Re: Aggro management
« Reply #22 on: November 14, 2006, 06:49:30 PM »
I just start casting a low-mana heal the moment the tank engages and always keep them HoTted up.  Shielding I do only if they're about to die.
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Lokassa

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Re: Aggro management
« Reply #23 on: November 17, 2006, 11:28:04 AM »
Some tips from my PoV as being an end-game priest.

1) Tanks rely on the initial rage generation from physical dmg taken.  Priest and pally shields are viewed as an external source of hitpoints and since dmg is not taken by the tank but the shield instead.. the tank will not generate that extra point of rage from dmg recieved via thier talents.  As you progress through into end game, the need for that first hit can mean the difference between holding a mob and loosing it for a tank.  This also applies to instances like UBRS where a shield can last several hits and if the primary tank doesn't have an uber fast weapon then his rage gen will be significantly slower.

2)  Put a max rank renew on the tank before the actual pull.  There is a system in the game where if a spell is cast, ie renew, after a pull a 0 point threat gain is caused which will draw agro to you.  Same principle as a once a hunter pulls, if the tank bloodrages then agro is then on the tank.    So renew before the pull or once the mobs have centered on the tank.

3) No matter what your spec, using lesser ranked heals are always a good idea to conserve mana, reduce over healing, and to keep yourself in the 5second rule for mana regen.  Example I personally use Heal 4/5, Gheal 5/4/3, Flash Heal 7/6/5, but i never down rank my renew..ever.

4) as far as fade is concerned i'd only use it once you have been alerted of gaining agro.  Using fade before then really is useless and is a waste of mana.  Fade doesn't work like a hunters FD where your agro table is complete reset back to 0 on a numerical scale.  Instead it temporarily reduces your agro by an X percentage then goes back to normal.  The reason tanks are able to regain control of a mob is because during that fade time your agro has been surpassed by others.  Wish it did work like FD cause then that would be like easy mode for priest.