New Strategies for PVP

[Darkling]

As I have been doing a lot of PVP since 70, I thought I'd start listing a few strategies against the different classes I have developed.

Warlocks used to be my most hated opponent to fight. After PVP, druids are now what I hate fighting, so I'll start here.

1. Healing Druids: You want to use two poisons here at 70. Crippling on your Main Hand and Wounding on your Off-hand. Stealth up and hit them with an Ambush if you are specced for it and have a dagger. Otherwise, use garrotte as it silences them for 3 seconds. Use shiv to build up to 5 stacks of wounding poison on them, causes a little nature dmg, weapon dmg, and reduces their healing by 50%. So now you have them 'wounded' and 5 cp on them and the garrotte dot should have worn off by now. Hit them with a kidney shot and commence to murdering them. They have probably put faerie fire on you already. Ignore it and do not waste the Cloak of Shadows cause they'll just hit you with it again after CloS is worn off. The trick is to keep them stunned and keep the wounding poison on them and you will win. There are other things I use being sub spec, but this is a basic strategy for every rogue in general. You should not need any cd's here.

2. Feral Druids: Dot, dot, dot. Crippling poison and deadly poison here. I say put the crippling on OH weapon so you can do an instant application of it. Hit them with a garrotte. Use shiv for easy cp's and use rupture. Now they are crippled and losing health at a constant rate. the trick to beating a feral druid now is kiting them. And you may have to use cd's on them. The only cd ability I have had to use on a feral is blind after the initial dots wear off. After 6 seconds, you leave combat and can restealth. If you are dotted, time the dmg from the dot to stealth and cheap shot immediately. Start building the points again for more dots. In this fight, envenom is your friend. Envenom does two wonderful things, ignores armor and removes the stacks of deadly poison from them for instant dmg and a gouge if you need it. The key here is to keep them dotted as much as possible and kite the hell out of them.

3. Moonkin: Moonkins are by far the easiest to fight IMHO. You can use any poison you want here. Cloak od Shadows is your friend with the fight now as his little arcane spell he has will dot you and he will spam the heck out of it and you will die fairly fast if you don't use Cloak of Shadows by the second spell cast. You can stunlock Moonkins easily and just kill them with white damage. Time your energy ticks and your KS/gouge properly. blind is useful here as well. I use instant poison on my OH weapon for this fight. I don't dot him and I use Blind if my Ks or gouge is not ready or if I need to give myself a bandaid, which is rare to do against a moonkin.

That's it for this class. Like I said, I'm sub-spec, so I left out some of the extra techniques I use for my spec. Any other specs, feel free to add some of your PVP tactics for this class. Next class topic will be Paladins (I'm going in order from the most difficult class to the least difficult class to fight IMO).

p.s. Don't let all your secrets out because you will start getting your butt kicked in duels.

[Vengeance]

ty TB, now i can kill rogues easier, being i know how they might try to kill mwah...

[Arcdelad]

When killing feral druid named arc: Attack......done. Don't even break a sweat.

[Darkling]

Paladins are probably the hardest to take down in a 1V1 fight next to a warrior. They are priests in plate that can dish out a good deal of damage if they know what they are doing. I don't know the main specs that they use for anything so I'm not going into detail on how to fight the different aspects of pallyhood.

There are 2 things you want to do:

1) Make them bubble early and burn their mana if they happen to get out of a stunlock. I tend to open with a cheap shot>BS>Shiv>Shiv>KS. By now they have bubbled as I have taken a lot of health from them. Usually, they've bubbled before i can get a KS off. This is wonderful for me, because all I have to do is kite them until the bubble goes away. Then I KS them, and commence to building points again for finishing moves or more stuns to wear them down.

2) Use Wound Poison on OH and either Deadly Poison or Crippling Poison on MH.  Wound Poison is an obvious choice because of the anti-healing properties of it. Crippling is useful if they don't use their Freedom of Movement spell. I just go with Deadly Poison cause it dots them and forces them to take the time to heal again and again. If you have Envenom, use it when you have 5 combo points built and 5 doses of Deadly on them. Envenom ignores armor and gives a lot of nice damage.

Different rogue specs are going to vary in tactics. I am Assassination now and have Imp KS, which gives some extra nice damage. I also use Cold Blood on either Envenom or Mutilate instead of the normal Eviscerate or Ambush opener.

When I was sub spec with Shadowstep and prep, I opened with a garrotte, BS, Shiv Shiv, KS. built some more points and used Rupture. I kept the dots ticking on them to make them burn mana. Spec correctly with the 10% AP bonus, Garrotte and Rupture do some really nice DOTs.

P.S. All rogues have kick, use it here as much as you can. Gouge, Gouge, Gouge as well.

[un4]

For combat rogues:
Riposte and blade twisting are your friends!  Nothing like a daze effect on top of crippling poison.  Reposte even druids in animal forms, as it does a lot of damage for only 10 energy.  Adrenaline rush can make stunlocking a breeze.  Without it, I can SS once during a cheap shot and still have the energy to gouge after.  With ADR, you can keep SSing away... and away... and away... and KS... and SS... etc.  You get the point.

Stun pallies early on in a fight so they waste their bubble to break the stun.  Don't be afraid to use your sprint to run circles around them until the bubble runs out.  Then stunlock, riposte, and SS away.

Druids are hit or miss for combat rogues.  Casters and moonies will go down in seconds, but feral druids can be a pain.  Use timers.  Dots are (like TB said) your friend against feral druids, and keep them stunned as much as possible.

Locks and priests go down easy.  Keep 'em from getting off the fears and you'll win.  For mages: use garrotte to open instead of CS, so they don't blink away.  Eviscerate will do massive amounts of damage to casters.  I like to drop a five-point eviscerate if the clothy is at 60% health or lower.  If it crits, I'll probably get the kill.

Warriors haven't really changed in any way that will effect us since TBC, so use the old time honored traditions.

Rogues:
Combat rogues destroy all other specs.  There's a moment after a rogue uses shadow step on you that lets you see them, so spin and get your CS off.  After that, drop a gouge, then KS, etc.  I'm combat swords/assassination, so I build combo points like crazy.  With surprise attacks, I can hit straight through evasion with my finishers, and my relentless strikes gives me combo points from finishers.  With both, I can chain eviscerate a rogue until he or she dies without taking damage in return or missing.  Riposte is brutal against rogues too, as our abilities require a weapon in the main hand.

More to follow.

[Vengeance]

Fun how druids are now on the top-dangerous list...
Btw, if a lock catches you...refer to cap. 

[capnpop]

someone talking about me?

[Darkling]

Warlocks, next topic I guess. Advice to the warlocks in the guild: Don't use Seed of Corruption on a rogue. I had it cast on me four times in EoTS yesterday. Funny.

[capnpop]

meh, most rogues aren't smart enough to CloS when they see it.  In AV earlier today I successfully contributed to a wipe of the entire horde group crossing the DB bridge.  3 SoC + 1 shadowfury = tons of dmg on everyone in the group.  I was out of position for the 2nd wave of hordies though...  Watched a hunter go from full health to 15-20% in the AoE...

[Belandand]

Paladins are tough? Maybe the holy paladins that just stand there and heal themselves then have the nerve to bubble..

BUT, this is what I use- you tell anyone, you die:
Mages: open with garrote unless you've been following that particular mage for a while and you've seen him blow blink (in that case use cheapshot). Basically shiv crippling poison to keep them within range. Something useful I found while dueling mages is to garrote, clos then use improved sprint. Most mages will blow frost nova and a few frostbolts to slow you down- but they are ALL negated by clos. Also, if either if you're in arena or in regular BGs, keep your eye open for a mage. Most of them time a mage will sneak up on you when you're fighting another person entirely. In that case, use Clos because it will negate all casts that they will do on you (ESPECIALLY POM Pyro).

Feral Druid- ease is dependent on if they are in bear or cat form. If they are in cat form, use evasion and fight like normal, keeping an eye on your crip. poison and their shapeshifting. Many times an opportunity to smash them will come when they shapeshift out of a snare or to heal themselves. NOW is the time to use kidney shot or vanish/cheapshot. For bear druids, make good use of rupture and shiv. Try not to waste energy on moves like backstab or SS because you'll be sorry you don't have enough energy to use that kidney shot when they break out to heal or w/e.
Moonkins- essentially treat like a caster. Remember, when you see them casting cyclone, Clos BEFORE they complete the cast. This will ensure that you fully resist the cyclone.

Warriors- I am still having a bit of trouble with MS warriors due to the fact that my pvp health is 9024 and my resillience is pretty low (under 100 I believe). However, always try to shiv on cripp poison and fight them inside their character model while moving to their back. Most often than not, this confuses them and gives you a slight upper hand so you can think clearly and decide if blowing evasion is a good idea or not. From personal experience, I can take on s1, s2, s1/s3 mixed and s2/s3 mixed MS warrior without incurring a lot of damage.
Protection warriors- don't joke, I have been in bgs with a lot of horde prot warriors. Your best option here is to use shiv. DO NOT try to use your special abilities (at least not while attacking from the front) because if they have the gear, they will be dodging and parrying alot of it- no matter how high your hit rating is. The reason I suggest shiv is because currently, its the only move we have that cannot be dodged, blocked or parried (though I am not 100% sure as to the parry part). Use shiv to build cps to use rupture.
D/W Warriors- pretty much treat this like a weaker rogue or enhance shaman. Use evasion and you'll fine.

Hunters- the fight can be easy to hard depending on spec. If it's BM, make sure you're quick enough to maneuver to their rear and open with garrote. Never use cheapshot unless you know the hunter has used BW. After opening, the hunter will kite you. Blow improved sprint (if you have it) or trinket/sprint and stick close to him. If he sets a frost trap, clos through it and keep on his tail. If you're worried about his pet, use evasion.
Scattershot hunters- I find these particularly annoying because of how they SS you and set the trap RIGHT under your feet. Best option is to trinket out of SS and try to gouge iving you some time to decide what to do (CLOS through any traps the hunter might have set).

Shaman- resto shamans (in decent pvp gear) are a nuisance to kill for the main reason that they can just stand there and heal themselves for more dmg than you can deal. Use wounding poison on either weapon to keep them in check and go to their back. Elemental shamans are straightforward- Clos out of frostshock and stick to them, applying crip poison. If you have imp. sprint you can just use sprint to break through the shock and save Clos for lightning bolt or a chain lighting. If timed right, you can negate the dmg completely. Stun as needed. For enhancement shamans, use evasion. Also make good use out of your Clos to avoid frostshock and stormstrike ( I am pretty sure stormstrike does nature dmg).

Warlocks- fight is heavily dependent on the spec. Many times I have pvped against warlocks, I found that demonolgy locks rely heavily on the felguard to intercept(?) and just dot you up. Affliction locks are a slight bit annoying due to the fact that they can (and most liely will) bait you into using CLOS. The trick is to weigh the Clos usage against the locks remaining HP and the amt of dmg you think you can safely churn out. If you think you have the lock in the bag, blow clos and use your cds. Destro locks are especially easy because even if they do dot you, if doesn't burn for that much. Much of their dmg comes through castable spells. Timing stuns and an occasional blind will always let you beat destro locks.
**Important note**- depending on the opening move used, a lock will usually cast death coil to gain ground. What I do is cheapshot, watch the cheapshot timer then either: 1) if you're panicky, use Clos and watch as the death coil gets negated or 2) use the cps on a kidney shot THEN use Clos when the kidney shot is over. Clos can also negate howl of terror and fear (again, if timed right).

Paladins- retribution paladins are pretty simple if you understand that a critical move they will use on you is HoJ. If you're like me and prefer not to use the pvp trinket ( at least in bgs) then heres what you can do: Ope with cheap shot- if you're not in arena, you don't really have to worry about the paladin being bubbled after this point). CAREFULLY watch the duration of the stun and blow clos BEFORE the stun wears off. If timed correctly, you WILL see the paladin use HoJ and it get resisted- allowing you enough time to control them. In the event they use blessing of freedom, blind them and get away or just vanish. If you're fighting a paladin that knows you're around. they will spam cheap consecrate. If you feel like you should open up on them, Clos through the consecrate and do so. In the case of the paladin using their bubble, GET AWAY from them and restealth ASAP. If they can't find you, they'll leave you alone and turn their attention to someone else. THEN you open on them.
**Important note**- when fighting paladins, use Clos on them. Aside from negating HoJ, it will negate the holy dmg that comes from their special moves- giving you extra thinking time or health.

I was originally sub spec and I was fairly terrible at pvp. The reason was that I had too many options to use- premed, prep..double cds made me careless. But switching to combat has made me more aware of the bg surroundings. That and I can have all my hits actually LAND while waiting for energy to recharge. Currently, I do not pvp with pvp based gear. I just find it more comfortable to pvp with my raid gear and s2 swords. You don't necessarily need 10k + HP and 300 resil. to do well in pvp (arena is a different story). It's all a matter of knowing what moves work against which class and when to use Clos. Clos isn't just used to clear dots. If used right it can severely turn the fight in your favor.

[Arcdelad]

Feral Druid- ease is dependent on if they are in bear or cat form. If they are in cat form, use evasion and fight like normal, keeping an eye on your crip. poison and their shapeshifting. Many times an opportunity to smash them will come when they shapeshift out of a snare or to heal themselves. NOW is the time to use kidney shot or vanish/cheapshot. For bear druids, make good use of rupture and shiv. Try not to waste energy on moves like backstab or SS because you'll be sorry you don't have enough energy to use that kidney shot when they break out to heal or w/e.

Good in theory borne....didnt you die in our duel when i still had like 60% health?

[Belandand]

Ooooh yea. I got panicked when I saw the duels with the other guys before we started TK. Plus your dps gear is very good. Most of those druids in pvp live by the s2 sets so, at least in my opinion, they're easier to beat. But there is more than one way to skin a cat- I'll figure it out eventually.

[Trismus]

Some stuff I find helpful:


On druids, I tend to use a fairly normal rotation to completely lock them in caster forms. I will whitehit and build up CPs when they are bear, the second they hit caster/cat I Kshot them. If it's arena and I catch them stealth then I'll just cheap shot >>>> 5cp Kshot. Either way, at this point I expect a trinket. As soon as the druid decides to trinket I gouge, then vanish, then CS again. Afterwards, Kshot ought to be up again. Typicially, I will throw one or two CP towards S&D during the gouge. After that Kshot I then blind, re-stealth, then CS again, then gouge again, then Kshot again, then if I really need to keep going (full s3/4 ought to be dead with over 30 sec in caster form getting beat on by me) I can prep vanish and CS. If this cycle gets screwed up and he goes bear form I just whitehit and shiv crip to keep him from getting away while building up CPs. Soon as he goes caster to heal I'll Kshot him again and start the cycle.


Shaman: Keep a spare off-hand weapon with Mind-Numbing in your inventory. Keep a modifier macro that equips it and shivs. Minb-numbing + wound poison mainhand + kick/DT/Kshot interrupts = dead shaman.


Warriors: Keep a second off-hand weapon with a modifier macro and Deadly Poison on it. For warriors, it is going to be very hard to beat them regardless, but by shiving up deadly poison and then Envenoming you can even the odds a bit. Obviously strafes-pam to keep them off you by lag is good, but it doesn't help you much if you're hemo hits for a 500 crit. Envenom ignores armor and can crit for upwards of 3k+ with 5/5 VP which hurts.

Also, popping evasion AND ghostly strike is good, but only one or the other is a death sentance. Also, once you do pop them both expect a 2500 hit every 5 seconds, maybe harder depending (OP has a roughly 80-91% crit chance depending on gear. You would need several thousand resilience to reduce that enough).



-Tris

[Grendeel]

If you are fighting a lock and the lock isnt sl/sl specd with the vw out, then as a rogue, you should beat him handily (providing you are equally geared).  Felguard spec can be useful against a warrior but intercept really shouldnt come into play against a rogue.  Afflction with UA can be a nice build for pvp in general but against i melee class you lose your soul link talent which is vital  (pet takes 20% damage or 30% melee damage with vw).  If your pvping against a destro lock, you only have to hit the "i win button"  lol. 

For fighting a rogue and in the sl/sl build,  a competent lock will expect the cheapshot opening.   We wait it out.  If at any time we get to dot you up we do it, while waiting for the kidney shot. (most times you wont get a chance but once in a while u can get a dot or 2 off). Once i get the kidney shot i trinket and get 3 dots on the rogue right away, followed by a death coil.  Now here you can expect the Clos and as a lock we have 2 options imo. 1. if u think u can squeeze off a shadowbolt, by all means do it.  2. You can try and get a fear off and give yourself more space for the inevitable run away! strat  lol. In either case you are turning and running away, doing whatever you can do to buy time till that immunity to magic wears off.  Once it wears off resume dotting and then draining life while the dots tick.  If the rogue doesnt have the  throwing weapon that slows movement speed, or isnt  using movement slowing poison, then you can use curse of exhaustion with the dots and just kite him around for the win (dont get this scenerio often).  Dont try and fear a rogue when they are meleeing you.  it will be on forever pushback and they can also put all your shadow spells on gcd.

Ideally you just want survive and let the dots  work their magic.   Always have your pet on aggresive and always use vw against a rogue or warrior ( pet takes 30% of all damage you take).  If done right, you can actaully outlast the rogue and force him to vanish and run away.  For me personally, with the 2 vw sacs for a bubble, an hs,  30 percent damage going to the pet,  siphon life and draining life, if done right, i rogue has to do around 25 to 30k damage to kill me and this isnt easy to do.

At the end a typical rogue  ( you cowards  lol ) will vanish and run away.   As a human lock, save your perception racial for this moment.  Pop it immediately.  Hopefully the pet will see him and go get him, or u can still see him and reapply the dots....ending the fight.

This is how i approach fighting a rogue.

[usonian]

Good in theory borne....didnt you die in our duel when i still had like 60% health?

Don't duel arc if you're a stealth class and you're both in a raid group.  He'll just crowd you and mash pounce without letting stealth take effect:P

I started out PvP with my usual combat spec but it didn't give me as many options as I have with my shadowstep build.  Combat is nice for sustained DPS and a little more survivability, but your mobility is weak.  I guess it doesn't matter as much in BG's when you're pretty much a DPS class, but in arenas (especially 2's and 3's) combat just doesn't cut it.  A lot of the dueling strategies you mentioned get a lot easier when you spec into the Subtlety tree.  You have MoD for increased stealth, Camo for faster movement, preparation for two sets of cooldowns (vanish and evasion ftw), Dirty Deeds and Sinister Calling for more AP/crit/dodge (better burst, Hemo does more damage than SS), and shadowstep is the ultimate in mobility for chasing people down with with a cripple shiv, kicking heals/casts, locking down hunters, etc.  I would suggest giving shadowstep another try and working on some pvp gear that will probably give you even more STA, AP, Crit and armor than your PvE gear.  Resilience is not my main concern in PvP gear and I still have 300+ with a blend of PvP and Pve gear.