DamageMeters, SWStats, and all those dmg tracking addons

[Shadowwolf]

I dont like them.  Not one bit. Damagemeters, SWStats and all the sort do more harm than good for WoW. Why you might ask? Well, its simple really.

For starters, people play to them and forget about aggro management, as well as the stress on tanks and healers. Playing to "beat out" other people on the chart is dumb. In BG's, its not really, because everything about a BG is a competition, thats why its all tracked by the game already. My problem is those people who play to it in instances and raids. Why? Why is it so important to outdps someone else? You dont get a trophy, theres no extra loot or money for it, it gives nothing. Actually, Im wrong there, it does give something, it gives healers and tanks more work to do when someone doing that pays more attention to a colored bar on a small red window then whether or not the boss is coming right for them.

Seriously, theres no point to them in instances and raids. All it does is create more havoc if thats how you gauge your playing. Skill isnt a reflection on how much damage you can do to mobs, its about successfully navigating through an instance with as little deaths of party members and successful boss drownings as possible. Who cares if you do more damage than the rest of the people in your group if you pay no attention to aggro making the tank run around to catch the bosses or mobs and pull them off you and the healer having to waste mana trying to keep you alive.

Like anything else in this world, these addons have been taken into an extreme I dont think they were intended to go to. These addons work great to identify whether or not your group has enough DPS for a specific encounter, or if over healing is taking place and by whom so maybe healers can organize amongst themselves more, or even in PUGs to see who isnt pulling their weight and just tagging along letting everyone else do the work.

This aggravated me enough to rant about it finally, as most of you know these have been my feelings about these addons for a while now. Today was one example after another for me of how bad it is.

Hopefully none of us here do this because playing to top the damage charts is silly and just dumb. This isnt a competition amongst one another, its a team effort and playing your class well doesnt depend on how much more damage you do than someone else in group. 

[JohnnieRat]

/agree

KTM is far more valuable than Damage Meters to a group (although it isn't 100% accurate...it's close enough for most people)

The only really beneficial thing to a damage meter (particularly SW Stats) is that is has built in functions to measure your efficiency (heal/mana, dmg/mana, etc... --> sometimes mana efficiency isnt good tho either if big bursts are needed but all in all.... rambling rambling rambling... you get my point). Raid leaders can look at programs like this and see if anyone is slacking... but that problem doesn't need a UI mod for that especially in a 10 person raid where you can't blend in with the croud.

Biggest example I can think of right now would be the Moroes fight: a person assigned to CC a mob should most definitely not be focused on all out DPS on Moroes... keeping a mob shackled, feared, trapped, dancing, napping, singing, cuddling with bear tanks is way too important to focus on the mad DPS.


I think my insomnia is breaking... so gonna rack out now

[Drygioni]

remember that guild that actually gave out DKP based on the dmg meter?

haha what were they called?

[voctovian]

I agree Shadowwolf. 

It is easy to forget that while you may enjoy "topping the chart" and may not be bothered by the cost of repairs and consumables, everyone else in your group may not share your outlook.  Even if cost is not an issue, remember that every unnecessary wipe caused may only be 15 minutes of your time to come back, buff and mana up, but dont forget that it is an hour of other peoples time that has been wasted. 

[Air]

Those info tracking addons are just a tool that can be used for good or bad things.  Swstats and recap collect more than just damage output, but also input, healing in/output, amount of deaths, overall raid dps, healing / mana efficiency, and many other things. 

In 40-man raids it was used to check to see if people were actually doing something or slacking off.  When a person is being out damaged by the main tank who is probably a prot warrior, something's up.  I haven't done a 25-man yet, but the same could be said for it.  But it would be easier to see who is performing like they should.  With a 10-man, its a bit different.  There's alot of CC in a 10-man.  The only time a damage / healing chart would be good is on a boss. 

Or can be used for bad things like stroking your e-peen.  And degrading your guild members.  Just kick the people who are to focused on the damage meters, and asking for a read out every 10 mins.  Either that, or opt not to invite them to a raid next time.  Until they get their act together.

[Arcdelad]

I agree with everything you guys have said...these things are dangerous...it breeds competition where cooperation should be the focus, and it can have side effects like druids declaring they "dont do bear form" becuase it has lower DPS...

Having said that, I do have damage meters becuase its an informative tool. When I am running an instance or raid, its nice to see who is doing what damage becuase it helps me make better decisions...for example, if we have a lock and a hunter in BM, and were shy on DPS, I can see that the lock is outdpsing the hunter, and opt to have the hunter handle the adds so we can makeup for lack of dps with the locks higher DPS....

its just a tool...people use tools either good or bad...the fault lies in the people themselves....

uh...damage meters dont hurt raids, people hurt raids....my president is not charleton heston for the record

[Genoism]

i hear ya shadow, i hate it when ppl are like OMG I'm on top blablabla, to me its just a tool to see who is slacking off. Or even if they aren't slacking off it gives a good indication of whether they could use some tips on better dps output or gear or similar stuff. Just cuz someone is ahead by 1% doesn't make them any better then you. And in raids even more so, a mage kills his dps through taking care of sheep, or a hunter through trapping, lock through banish/seduce, so many opportunities where you can't look at the meter and say this guy is better.

On a side note, when people in instances start bragging about their crits, if I'm on my healer, i'll throw a big heal and start bragging about how my numbers are bigger ^_^

[capnpop]

I agree that dmg meters shouldn't be used to determine effectiveness in raids and dps is not a viable way of comaring my DPS to TB's or anything like that. 

One thing that I've used it for is comparing my DPS to Gren's DPS (Affliction vs Demon with fairly similar stats) on long fights and from dmg meters i know that in fights that last under 1 min 30 secs it isn't worth it for me to cast DoTs other than their first time (first time to get some delayed, low aggro dmg in).  After that, shadowbolt spam and my demon hitting something (with cleave on or off) is far more effective than the GCD for more DoTs (difference of around 100 dps or so).  This isn't true in theorycrafting, but based on my playstyle and my timing (which is prolly poor) that is how it works out.  That's what I use the dmg meter for.

Honestly, if i top the dmg meter i'm happy, but I don't go out of my way to point it out since I tend to use it to judge my own effeciveness.  I know what my DPS should be on some fights, and I strive to get it to where it belongs.

[un4]

I like to use them to compair the PvE effectiveness of my 10,000 specs/week.

[Lord Entropy]

Agreed.

I'll also had that they provide a disincentive to put talent points into areas that help group DPS.  For example, my hunter is BM and specc'd ferocious inspiration, which increases everyone's damage.  Similarly, improved hunter's mark helps other's dps, probably more than it helps the hunter.  The various stat mods don't record the effects these group-based talents provide, so the damage stats of individuals are flawed at best.

Even so, I have one installed, but like others have said, I use it more to gauge my own performance against myself rather than compare it to others.

[Buzan]

I like to use them to compair the PvE effectiveness of my 10,000 specs/week.

Yeah but that's just the thing you use it for pvp. PVP wise it's fine no arguments there but for pve it can bring on a whole new bag of troubles to the table
Unnecessary wipes, time wasted rebuffing getting ready again, repair bills and than more money wasted on mats for buffs like pallies, priests etc.

I personally never used them in pve, only in pvp a couple times during my GM grind.

[Genoism]

I like to use them to compair the PvE effectiveness of my 10,000 specs/week.

Yeah but that's just the thing you use it for pvp. PVP wise it's fine no arguments there but for pve it can bring on a whole new bag of troubles to the table
Unnecessary wipes, time wasted rebuffing getting ready again, repair bills and than more money wasted on mats for buffs like pallies, priests etc.

I personally never used them in pve, only in pvp a couple times during my GM grind.

i think its a wonderul tool to guage your effectiveness or your spec in pve. Otherwise how would you know if your really helping or not.

[Buzan]

Yes but most of the time it brings out the competition in people like Shadow said. That competition is great in pvp, in pve not so much.

Ooh ooh me first me first, I wanna be first. That can cause problems that's all I meant I didn't say they weren't helpful tools

[un4]

If you don't link it, 'tis narray a problem
In PvP, it keeps a running total of how much damage I've done, so I don't really need a meter there.

[Nixphire]

Thinking out side of the box here. Couldn't it also be used as a tool to increase raid DPS as well as make stronger tanks? Faster DPS means bosses fall faster. Stronger tanks, mean aggro is pulled harder.
Heh, not saying one way or the other, just thinking in the other direction