Speccing and me :(

[capnpop]

So... I'm currently ret for purely dps purposes (I <3 big numbers ) but I'm wondering what my main role should be.

Ret: I don't know if it's just the fight but my only non-1v1 npc encounter has been Galv and while it was fun...i don't think i hit him....ever...  The entire "getting in range to hit someone" is an unusual thing for me, I'm more used to the "sit back and cast" or "he wants to hit me anyways..." ideas...not the "he's chasing someone else around" thing... in the end I ended up healing more than DPSing...  This said, i do enjoy swinging my big mace and the dps isn't bad (IMO) but finding myself in a group of melee is, simply put, insane.

Prot: I have a prot set as well, this gear/spec puts me at about 10k hps (low, but I've been 70 for 2 weeks now) with about 443 +def with gear/gems and with holy shield about 50-60% avoidance/mitigation stuff.  My problem with this spec isn't damage output...I love dropping a consecrate in an instance (especially low level instances) and killing EVERYTHING around me with mainly reactive damage, but in confidence.  I'm not sure how many mobs I can tank effectively (I understand it's mainly limited by the healer and me not getting killed too quickly) and watching my health drop that quickly is scary.  As a tank should I be needing a heal every time the healer is able to cast one? Should I be able to hold my own for a while without requiring a heal?  A normal fight for me as a tank in Shattered Halls kinda went like this: Toss my shield or gobby rocket pull, of the 5-6 mobs that came 1 got seduced, 1 got offtanked, 3 I tanked, last one (if there was one) got feared around.  At about 50-60% hps the first heal would land and I'd get a constant flow of Flash of Lights for 800-900 hps each (maybe downranked by 1 or 2 ranks).  I would occasionally get a big Holy Light but it was usually FoL coming in consistently for the entire fight.  Is that normal?  That's all I'm really wondering...

Holy: oddly enough this is the tree I like the most.  I have a holy set as well, but most of my gear is +dmg/healing not +healing so my itemization is a little out of whack.  Regarding healing...I heal in one of a couple ways:
1) Rank 1 FoL spam on the tank till I drop a guaranteed crit max rank holy light then increase to a rank 5-6 FoL using max rank FoL when the health deficit requires it.
2) Spam everyone but the tank with FoLs to keep them topped and use max rank to top off the tank when the health deficit is about right (sometimes down rank Holy Light a bit to prevent too much overheal).
Which of these two ideas seems most effective? 

In the meantime...i think it's time to respec holy again...


TL DR Version: Capn wants to know how to play a pally...

[Arcdelad]

I dont think ive seen a viable ret pally....well....hrm........would uther in WC3 count?

[Drygioni]

Ty would be the ideal person to comment on Prot spec. I went Ret for about 1 hour (the hour after I got [item]Gorehowl[/item]    but didnt like it. So I have been holy 99.99% of the time.

I look at it as being the ultimate utility player. A good holy pally puts up good heal #s takes a beating and judges effectively. The most fun I have in raids is when theres a good healing priest focusing main heals and I can OH, cleanse, drop seals and judge.  The reason I never collected a "clothadin" set is because with a good balance of +heal and plate armor a good holy pally can heal through AOE that would kill your average clothy. With 5 points in spiritual focus and Conc aura, its easy to heal relatively unhindered while taking a butt kicking. I prefer an even distribution of HP/Mana/+heal/MP5 where a priest might prioritize +heal and MP5 before hp and mana.

I guess the way I see it is, don't play a holy pally as a holy priest.  Vive la difference!!

[Buzan]

I dont think ive seen a viable ret pally....well....hrm........would uther in WC3 count?

Err what the heck mate ?

You weren't the only one winning duels back when I was ret specced or you forgot ?

I always finished first or in the top 2 for damage done in every instance I ran with my pally back in my ret days too.

[Air]

I dont have much experience with paladins myself, getting close to 70 with mine though

Don't discount ret though, having 1 ret paladin in a 25 man could help out alot.  Having them judge wisdom or light depending on the fight can make a big difference.  Also I think they have 1% crit group buff which I think helps prot paladin threat.  Then there is the -30% to threat.

[Nasanna]

Ret: I don't know if it's just the fight but my only non-1v1 npc encounter has been Galv and while it was fun...i don't think i hit him....ever...  The entire "getting in range to hit someone" is an unusual thing for me, I'm more used to the "sit back and cast" or "he wants to hit me anyways..." ideas...not the "he's chasing someone else around" thing... in the end I ended up healing more than DPSing...  This said, i do enjoy swinging my big mace and the dps isn't bad (IMO) but finding myself in a group of melee is, simply put, insane.

Either get used to whacking away with all the rogues and warriors next to you or pick something else... Maybe give ret a try in a 5 man sometime and see how you like it. I wouldn't expect to top the damage meters as a "support class" (elemental and enhancement shamans are good group buffers too).  Basically, you'll provide more damage potential and more buffs for the raid/group if you are ret... I can't comment on how they do on the damage meters though.

Prot: I have a prot set as well, this gear/spec puts me at about 10k hps (low, but I've been 70 for 2 weeks now) with about 443 +def with gear/gems and with holy shield about 50-60% avoidance/mitigation stuff.  My problem with this spec isn't damage output...I love dropping a consecrate in an instance (especially low level instances) and killing EVERYTHING around me with mainly reactive damage, but in confidence.  I'm not sure how many mobs I can tank effectively (I understand it's mainly limited by the healer and me not getting killed too quickly) and watching my health drop that quickly is scary.  As a tank should I be needing a heal every time the healer is able to cast one? Should I be able to hold my own for a while without requiring a heal?  A normal fight for me as a tank in Shattered Halls kinda went like this: Toss my shield or gobby rocket pull, of the 5-6 mobs that came 1 got seduced, 1 got offtanked, 3 I tanked, last one (if there was one) got feared around.  At about 50-60% hps the first heal would land and I'd get a constant flow of Flash of Lights for 800-900 hps each (maybe downranked by 1 or 2 ranks).  I would occasionally get a big Holy Light but it was usually FoL coming in consistently for the entire fight.  Is that normal?  That's all I'm really wondering...

So you're asking if you're taking too much damage? In general, I've noticed that pally tanks have less HP than druid or warrior tanks, so I try to keep them topped off. I don't think they take MORE damage, but on hard hitting mobs and bosses, they're more likely to be 2-shot. I'm not a paladin healer, so I can't comment on if you were sucking up too much healing in that situation. I would consider a tank needing "too much" healing if I simply couldn't heal fast enough to keep them alive. I've never had this problem with any character specced for tanking and that has decent gear (unlucky crits/crushing blows/whatever aside).  And usually, I have no problem with them tanking 4-5 at once... 3 is probably a safe number though. If you aren't sure, you can try tanking 2-3 and have the rest CC'd. Then ask the healer if they mind you tanking more next pull. Repeat until you find a good number for you to tank.

Holy: oddly enough this is the tree I like the most.  I have a holy set as well, but most of my gear is +dmg/healing not +healing so my itemization is a little out of whack.  Regarding healing...I heal in one of a couple ways:
1) Rank 1 FoL spam on the tank till I drop a guaranteed crit max rank holy light then increase to a rank 5-6 FoL using max rank FoL when the health deficit requires it.
2) Spam everyone but the tank with FoLs to keep them topped and use max rank to top off the tank when the health deficit is about right (sometimes down rank Holy Light a bit to prevent too much overheal).
Which of these two ideas seems most effective?

I don't think your healing style really matters that much as long as you aren't over healing, you aren't running out of mana quickly, and the tank isn't dying.  However, I'm not a paladin, so I can't comment on healing styles and mana efficiency for you. 

I CAN tell you this: I'd suggest about 500-600+healing, 50 mp5, 6k hp, and 7k mana for healing level 70 instances (if you're holy)... It's fine to have some of this as damage gear, I started out healing in my level 70 damage set and random quest reward healing items.  I had about those stats as resto-spec and did just fine. As far as I can tell, shamans have similar healing gear to paladins, just without the spell crit, so those stats should work for you too.

[Drygioni]

I CAN tell you this: I'd suggest about 500-600+healing, 50 mp5, 6k hp, and 7k mana for healing level 70 instances (if you're holy)... It's fine to have some of this as damage gear, I started out healing in my level 70 damage set and random quest reward healing items.  I had about those stats as resto-spec and did just fine. As far as I can tell, shamans have similar healing gear to paladins, just without the spell crit, so those stats should work for you too.

To me this seems low for a lvl 70 holy pally.

I'd shoot for minimum 1000+ to heal, at least 100mp5 and over 9k hp and mana each.

[Vengeance]

Just something quick to say...Prot and Ret pallies are getting amazingly buffed next patch...Prot has something like +10% HP now in talents (i.e. they WILL have the same or MORE health then a warrior, probably not an equally geared druid)and ret...well, ive noticed the burst damage their doing in pvp are much greater 
As to Vindication, does it affect raid bosses/trash?
Holy pallies, i cant imagine ANYTHING wrong with them their def OP imo
This icon wins : 

[Nasanna]

I CAN tell you this: I'd suggest about 500-600+healing, 50 mp5, 6k hp, and 7k mana for healing level 70 instances (if you're holy)... It's fine to have some of this as damage gear, I started out healing in my level 70 damage set and random quest reward healing items.  I had about those stats as resto-spec and did just fine. As far as I can tell, shamans have similar healing gear to paladins, just without the spell crit, so those stats should work for you too.

To me this seems low for a lvl 70 holy pally.

I'd shoot for minimum 1000+ to heal, at least 100mp5 and over 9k hp and mana each.

Those sound like good stats for starting Kara/heroics, the stats I suggested were for regular level 70 instances... which aren't too tough to heal.

[capnpop]

i'm currently at 9k mana, 7.5k hps and 900+ +heal...

lacking a shield, foot, hands, bracer, chest, and shoulder enchants

[JohnnieRat]

Healing normal instances is more than doable without 1000 +healing. As far as your tanking goes... if you're getting mostly 900 point FOLs while taking on multiple mobs, than you're good for whatever you're doing. I've spammed max rank HL on people at either 2k or 3k healing every 2 seconds (noncrit or crit) and they were still barely staying alive so I would say you're fine in that area. Although the defense and avoidance is a lot low for doing heroics and such.
Playing ret can be really fun and will be more fun some patch 2.3 when  we actually get a passive threat mitigator before Blessings. On the 1 raid I did as ret (massively undergeared compared to other DPS classes) I was still either pulling aggro or having to hold back a bit and still doing a lot less DPS than other people. Granted a ret pally is there to boost other people's DPS with the extra 3% crit judgement, an extra 3% DPS added for other people isn't worth losing out on a real DPS class. Having 6second crusader strike will greatly help.
Either way... do what funnest for ya. Trying to collect a set for each of the trees and be able to fill in wherever needed is the pally way.