My QQ about 3.0 pvp

[Trismus]

The PvP on the test realms is utterly unbalanced, mainly due to this change in DPS.


Currently, balance needs some adjustment. Warriors scale from horrid to unstoppable depending on gear level, resto druids can hit 2200 in 2v2 with almost any class, and hunter CC shares DR with so few other class abilities it's painful to watch.


BUT, on test server it's completely screwed up. If you go up against someone, skill notwithstanding, who is in gear 2-3 seasons lower then you, then you should win (or if you're a healer, survive for an extremely long amount of time / indefinitely). However, in full s3/4, with s4 weapon, 399 resilience, ~13.5k hps 41% unbuffed crit chance I can be ANNIHILATED 1v1 by a ret paladin. a season 1 ret paladin can beat me, a s4 ret paladin can beat me in less then 5 seconds. Even in the most insane example of rogue v. warlock or rogue v. priest the priest has the opportunity to do something, even without a trinket (assuming gear levels are somewhat similar... priest with 0 res and 6k hps against s3/4 rogue is not what I'm talking about).


Now, against other classes I die fast, but that's partly due to new talents and dps increase. I can manage just fine against most other classes when I'm working with a group. A ret paladin is rediculously overpowered. Here's how it works:

Lets say I manage to survive the initial stun with a quick disarm, los, trinket, or just plain luck. Chances are I'm at 75% regardless, but I manage to put up some dps. I can get crits, with almost 30% armor penetration, for roughly 900-1200 on a *moderately* geared paladin. This, taken to the extreme, gives me roughly 5k burst potential, 3 hits + 2 white hits, in an ideal situation. This urst recycles obviously, MS taking 6 seconds and WW taking 10.

Compare this to EASY 1400, 2100, and higher crits the paladin spams me with. So what about LoS? What about spell reflect? Spell Reflect, currently, does not work against most paladin abilities, whether or not this is a bug I'm not sure. In addition LoSing a paladin is damned near impossible. Between Bubble, Blessing of Freedom, and stun the paladin can evade or mitigate virtually all of my control abilities.


Now, I don't have a problem to a counter class. That is fine, but I would like to have SOME ability to do SOMETHING before getting gibbed. The problem, quite simply, is the enormous influx of rapid dps that is almost impossible to avoid.


How to change it? I don't know, I'm obviously not a professional game designer, but since ret paladins have such enormous DPS, there needs to be a pvp way of dealing with it. For example, Disarming a ret paladin should stop ALL dps, even spell dps. Also, make judgements etc reflectable.

Another solution would be to buff warriors, but with scaling I could see that becoming dangerous. Then again, I do have an exemplary weapon.



Quite frankly, is 3.0 and wotlk goes live in it's current state, I don't think warriors will have ANY place in pvp, being displaced by hybrids.


I have tried both PvProt and Fury PvP, and I have found both extremely lacking. Arms is the best pvp tree, still. Protection does very little dps and died almost as quickly as any other spec to spell damage, and fury is too easy to cc, takes way too much damage, and doesn't cause nearly enough pain against other players.


I have no problems with re-balancing and changing warriors, but currently I find us relegated to the back burner. Once again, I have some of the best gear in game right now, and I am getting wrecked like I was 1 month after hitting 70.


-Tris

[un4]

Sounds like rogues vs. warriors has been since... always.

[JohnnieRat]

I am the ret, maybe you have heard of me.

Anyways, spell reflect is not deisgned to work against a pally since even though it is spell damage, all of it is based off of Melee rating (crit, AP, hit etc). Except judgements, those are reflectable... sometimes.

Also... I am in need of PvP teams

[capnpop]

lrn2adjust


remember when casters (namely warlocks) had it easy during season1/2?

we had to learn from it, so do you

[Belandand]

I am pragmatic and seriously believe that the talents- though for different classes- all work toward the same end. For example there might be a rogue talen to increase SS dmg by a certain percentage whereas with balance druids there is a talent to increase wrath/moonfire dmg (I am sure). Sadly, I didn't even know regular players could apply for a beta key so I can't see first hand all the hubbub about ret pvp. However, Blizzard will most likely nerf/change certain talents as they see fit. If they don't, makes every dpser's job  a bit harder. But therein lies the thrill of the hunt (maybe.)

[Rocknlock]

you can still try out things on the ptr. just takes a long time to download the client for it. Shadow dance still doesn't work on there though = \

[khader]

Blizzard has a lot of work to do to balance out classes before the patch release which is expected a couple of weeks ahead of the expansion.

Every time I log on to the beta I have to redo my talents so they're making lots of changes.  I don't think its time yet to push the panic button.  Things may not be ideal when class changes are released but likely to be a lot closer to balanced than right now.

[kaylasb]

And... the last patch on the PTR the seal and judgement of command was nerfed badly  . With the new talents and abilities and the way of how we stack str is maybe one of the reasons that our crits are biger than yours, it scales very well... i don't know just and idea, because i am not in beta  

[Trismus]

Well, the above post was mainly a rant, and the issue has been fixed. In terms of Rogues v. Warrior however, I respectfully disagree, having experienced both sides of the spectrum. A rogue will not beat a warrior 1v1, but a warrior wont beat any other class, played correctly 1v1, unless the warrior can use the environment or some other extraneous factor. That said, my complaint the the sheer speed with which I got annihilated.


Another problem with my argument was this: On the PTR, 75% of the people there are 1700+ in terms of PvP.


In addition, resilience was broken. So like I said, this was just QQing, however the point remains: the balance is shifting. I see casters being much more powerful, melee needs to effectively re-scale up to dominance. Once I hit level 80 and get some rediculous 220 dps mace I will be stomping people left and right again.



-Tris

[Rocknlock]

If I get the jump on a war first from stealth and he has no outside help, he's dead 90 percent of the time. This being on things the way they are now. the other 10 percent of the time is when the war gets a lucky mace stun off on me through my time I have evasion and ghostly strike up or he has help from another horde. I've done wsg a couple times on ptr and my specs weren't quite right. Plus shadow dance isn't working and pom pyro mages have a bug where pom doesn' expire at all. So I was kinda gimped the 2-3 rounds I played lol

[Trismus]

1v1 I usually beat rogues, if not then the rogues is usually at about 20%.


However, the point I think I was trying to make is that rogues have an opportunity, it is very easy for a rogue to get away from me. Well, not me particularly due to Stoneform, but that notwithstanding a rogue can usually escape unless I'm playing perfectly. Now, if the rogue does some particularly clever stuff I can be beaten, and have been many times, but I do have the advantage.


In facing many rogue/druid teams recently, I have lost to very few, simply do to the fact that I can beat a rogue, and if the rogue focuses my druid partner I get to fully DPS that rogue (unless the druid CCs the rogue).

My point is, I have the edge, but a rogue can still win and still function against me.

[Liege]

Just gotta say that honestly its about time that the Pallies are coming out of the wood works...Blizzard has cut them down soo much, but this might be a little too much to raise the bar...now prot pallies are probably gonna go bye bye as far as PvPing is concerned...I really agree with the statement that we need a ability to make such pallies and other OP classes backpedal....as far as rogues, I'm not physically geared enough to really kill a rogue in PvP yet.  If I do, its because I have awesome heals backing me up, along with a spamming of Hamstring and Thunderclap.

[Trismus]

Killing in PvP is about tactics as much as anything else: it doesn't matter if they enemy has 10,000 +dmg and a weapon that does 400 dps on a 4.0 second delay, if they can't hit you and you can hit them, you are going to win.





3.0 has been balanced out alot and I'll cry myself to sleep again once I try it out at 80 for a few months.






-Tris