Gear in relation to classes...

[Shadowwolf]

that they do Mag, and yup, ive seen him in a dress at times, hehe.

[capnpop]

Ok, my 2 cents:

Whoever can use the +heal should be able to roll on it.  Just like those who can use +dmg for spells. 

Just because pallies can wear plate, mail, leather and cloth there is no reason they shouldn't be able to roll on something that makes them better as a player.

Yes, I understand that priests (and resto druids) need the +heal as well and are restricted to fewer types of armor, but it only hurts the group to tell our pallies that they don't get nicer +healing until all our priests have it.  Another thing of note is that once we progress further some pieces of equipment will be restricted to one class or only make sense to one class, while some things will make sense for multiple classes ([Mana Igniting Cord]).

IMO healing pallies can and should roll on +healing gear if it improves what they have and they can wear it, it only makes sense to me...

</end 2 cents>

[Krieg]

Just to add to what I said earlier...

When it comes to the difference between whether a priest and paladin should roll for a +healing item, then it is only fair to offer it to all who can use it because regardless of what opinions are, both would use the loot to the best of their ability which benefits the raid.  It is when you start to put qualifiers on loot that you tweak the fairness innately built into the game.  Who utilizes an item more or benefits more is purely subjective.

[Genoism]

so your saying if i want to spec and gear my pally towards high spell crits and holy dmg(which only cloth +dmg gear will offer) u guys wouldn't mind me rolling on cloths like the mana igniting cord, or a few nice things that would help bump my crit and holy dmg such as this rare drop from ZG
http://wow.allakhazam.com/db/item.html?witem=20032
I have a feeling if i rolled on that with my pally i'd hear a great many objections lol...then again...maybe not. I wouldn't ever want to roll on it but if a pally did roll for it for a higher spell crit and more holy dmg, would you be against it?

[Shadowwolf]

I dont believe anyone would because its your spec and if you planned to use it no one would have an issue.

As a once balance druid, most +spell dmg items dont come in leather, sadly they just dont. Why? Well because you have mages and locks that can only wear cloth that benefit in +spelldmg and the game seems to tailor leather drops towards healing or rogue-like specs. To be a more effective Moonkin id have to wear cloth similar to a mage or lock, but why should I be forced to only wear leather because im a druid but can clearly benefit from cloth items. Its the same thing with pallys wearing +healing cloth.

I think its fairly clear to most of us at this point that the game as it sits now is very bias in its drops for specific talent builds. Thats obvious by the bonuses of the PvP gear and the Tier sets. They leave little room for irregularities in roles from the mainstream when it comes to staying with gear specific for your "class".

Does this mean a pally should be able to roll on Devout should a priest need it, no of course not. However if no priests needed that specific devout item and the pally could benefit in healing from that item, I dont see why they should be limited. So lets put this into a better perspective shall we...

The mace Lyte got in ZG a few weeks back [wowitem]22713[/wowitem]. Both pallys and priests can benefit from that this is not debated, so why should cloth armor not of a Tier set be any different just because they can wear plate? Im failing to see why theres a line drawn specifically because a priest can only wear cloth but pallys arent restricted. If a pally is doing nothing but healing in the group, exactly why does it matter if they are wearing plate, leather or cloth. The total armor means nothing because they arent in a melee role. If priests could wear plate, would you expect them to help offtank, doubt it, youd want them to heal so wouldnt it make sense to allow the classes doing the healing to gather gear that will make them better at doing just that?

Im sorry, just seems silly to me to limit a paladin to only plate because thats the best they can wear and priests can only wear cloth.

[Emmalina]

I'm guessing, being a priest, that I would be someone raising "objections" to you rolling on some big +heal item, as you classify. In my mind if you are mainly bringing Geno on raids (as opposed to Iwuv or Elhaym), and she's spec'd to heal, and that's how you use her in raids, you are as entitled to any healing item, cloth or otherwise, as I am. However I would "object" if you were rarely using Geno, or she was not being used to heal in which case the item is not being used as intended.

Like I've said before, I think we're fair people here, not loot obsessed, so I'm not sure this is as much of an issue as we've made it. I would not roll on an item that is a slight improvement for myself (say a few +heal points or a couple base stats) against someone for who that item would be a huge improvement. In turn, if there is an item that is a significant improvement for me, I would have no qualms about rolling on it whether it "should" be for another class. I don't think an explicit code of rolling and distribution is needed for us at this point.

Employing a little reason and displaying very little greed, as individuals, has served us well up until now and I don't see those two things failing yet.

Emma

(comma spamming FTW)

[Shadowwolf]

Sadly, I dont think this would have ever come up if that guy hadnt made critisism to how we roll on things as a guild. Which I agree entirely with Kaid in that he had no right to say what he did especially in the way he said it and to take an attitude about it when it didnt even impact him was just special. I was glad that guy Minichomp spoke up and said soemthing to him about it being rude to do what he did.

Its very true, as a guild we are all very courteous as to who should get what item and like Gren said, never since I started playing this game would I ever expect to see 2 people argue for the other taking an item instead of themselves as they feel the other would benefit from it more, haha. Its happened here so many times tho "No you take it, you need it more. No no I insist, you take it." A very unique situation I think that only we have come to see here amongst ourselves which speaks well for us as a guild.

This was just a discussion to kind of vent out points from peoples perspectives on the situation. Keeping an open channel of opinions and discussion here on topics like this keeps us all aware of the different sides to which some of us see things, sometimes as people we tend to look at things from our point of view only and dont always realize theres a flip side to every coin. =)

[Emmalina]

Heads or ...what? 

Emma

[un4]

>sigh<  time to reroll a rogue i think.....

If you don't like loot issues, try finding daggers without devoting your life to 'em 

Anyhow.  I've played both a priest and a pally before, and I have mixed feelings.  If the pally is a healer, then I see the need to roll on +healing gear.  However, holy priests heal, can only heal, and can't wear leather, mail, or plate.  I'd say that within the guild, let everyone roll who needs the item.  When PUG pallies are involved, I'd rather the item goes to our hardworking priests.  Yes, I know that's unfair, but the priests have to get a break somewhere.

[Genoism]

heh i usually raid on my hunter as i prefer to, but ever so rarely we need more healing or aoe. And of course i will pass on any pally gear while im on my pally should someone else really want it more....and without a doubt i wouldn't roll on cloth if a priest could use it...i guess its just me.

[Valerian]

 The other day in ZG I realized at the end of the raid that Plate wearers were allowed to roll for cloth gear (cause I wasn't paying that much attention to loot distribution at the time it was happening). That caused an issue with a non-guildy in the raid. Now I don't want to discuss that guy cause I totally agree that he was an asswipe. I also didn't want to discuss it in raid chat since I didn't consider that to be the appropriate time or place, and I didn't want to get involved in the discussion in guild chat to ensure people didn't get to emotional/defensive/offensive ect. I figured this would be the appropriate forum to hash out my concerns and start a discussion on the issue.

I have always operated under the understanding that cloth wearers get first crack at all cloth loot (and leather wearers get first shot at leather ect..). Leather, mail and plate wearers would be allowed to roll only if all cloth wearers passed. I see no reason why it should be any different in the bigger raids. I assumed that was standard policy but after realizing plate wearers got to bid on cloth gear I am now confused as to wether there is  different set of rules for 20+raids, cause I've never seen that happen in any 10 or 5 man raid. If there is a different policy for 20 man raids, I would appreciate clarification.

I am looking forward to hearing other people's thoughts. thanks

p.s. As an aside, I just want to add that the loot didn't involve anything I could have used, I just believe there is a general principle of fairness that is the issue here.

p.s.s. Just so that there is a little more info. for members who were not there, pally's were rolling for cloth healing gear with a non-guildy priest.

p.s.s.s. Not that I'm pissing on the pally's or anything, or implying fault. I love pally's, they always rez me when i die (which happens quite a bit unfortunately  ) Just wanted to give members a little more specific info. so that they could make informed comments.

[Lyte]

Hey Val

Just wanted to let you know we have a whole other thread about what you were talking about.  We've been talking about it since Shadow posted after the ZG run when it happened.  Here's the link for ya:

http://forum.twilightonalex.com/index.php?topic=742.0

[Shadowwolf]

Hey Val

Just wanted to let you know we have a whole other thread about what you were talking about.  We've been talking about it since Shadow posted after the ZG run when it happened.  Here's the link for ya:

http://forum.twilightonalex.com/index.php?topic=742.0

Hehe, merged em.

[Lyte]

Seems we are pretty split on this issue.

[Jandris]

Well here is my 2 cents- I don't see how you can not be split on this when you have hybrid classes. Priests, Restro Druids and Healing Pallys can all benefit from cloth items. That said I think that our guild members are very undertanding  of the needs of others. I have passed & have seen others pass on items that they could have used but would benefit others more. We never seem to have a roll on equipment problem when it is just us. The PUG priest won this item, this was the second one to drop - I have to wonder why this priest needed two of them. We all have experiences with pug runs & with other guilds & know what it is like to be denied a chance on loot, to see it go to their other guild member, who certainly didn't need it. I think we need to keep in mind that the issue was caused by a non-guild player. I can not imagine this ever happening with two guild members.