tanking spec...

[dharq]

Ok, so I'm looking at a tank build for my paladin (got a long way to go, but still planning ahead..)

I'm leaning toward the http://www.worldofwarcraft.com/info/classes/paladin/talents.html?055031205001305013000530413050030102000000000000000000000000000 build. It gives huge, uninterruptible heals, a solid ST ranged attack, and most of the tanking goodness of a pure prot build (really will miss having holy shield and the damage reduction talent), but I'm thinking the extra heals and 10% chance to half any incoming damage will mitigate those losses.

Also, it'll let me use basically one set of gear and allow me to be either a tank or a healer in an instance as need arises.

Any feedback for me?

[Muridin]

i cant check that ( im at school and the blockers block must interesting websites.... im actually waiting for this one to be blocked...wouldnt put it past my school I.T admins ) but i will when i get home

but it sounds like that you have a solid specc

[JohnnieRat]

It's more of a hybrid spec than a "tanking" spec. Holy Shield is the cornerstone of the prot tanking aspect especially once the patch comes out. It honestly looks more like a healing spec than anything.
For PvP: it's really solid. Having 4 minute CD on bubbles is insanely nice along with no attack speed penalty.

It's really all dependant on playstyle. With pallies, at least from what I've noticed is that I've really had to commit to one or the other. Be it healing, tanking, or *lol*DPSing.

If I were to go 100% into tanking I'ld go http://www.worldofwarcraft.com/info/classes/paladin/talents.html?050500000000000000000500513350000152015000523500000000000000000

My planned build for the next 2 levels is http://www.worldofwarcraft.com/info/classes/paladin/talents.html?055030205201305310500530510300300100000000000000000000000000000
I PvP'd with this a lot and heal in instances and such all the time and never go OOM and you can make yourself nearly unkillable... which is hilarious while 3 guys are wailing on you and your reinforcements arrive (until you get silenced/ counterspelled)

It's all up to you though and what sort of role you want to fill.

[Shadowwolf]

Kaid and I ran SL with a Pally tank and the guy hardly took any damage and never lost aggro once except on the Ogre boss which I think is somewhat unavoidable due to the event.

http://armory.worldofwarcraft.com/#character-talents.xml?r=Alexstrasza&n=Ronick

http://www.worldofwarcraft.com/info/classes/paladin/talents.html?040000000000000000000502513352302102015010520504000000000000000

[JohnnieRat]

mmm If I ever get full rightous armor i too am switching to prot.

[Thunda]

I have a BE paladin that I just started up and am planning on him being a prot spec'd paladin.

Here is my planned build Tank Spec

I also like this build (just a few changes)
Tank Spec 2

[Arcdelad]

I know ronick..he and i used to team a lot when we were both members of The Senate and all its transitions up to Senate II.

Good guy...don't make fun of hockey around him though...hehehe

[Tyban]

I have been struggling with this question....what do I need to do, as a Paladin, to be able too main tank in lvl 70 instance?

On the Talent side I have tried spreading out the points into both holy and prot...also prot and ret.  If your main focus is on tanking, the majority of the the points needs to be in the Prot tree.  At min, you need 41 points to get Holy Shield.  If you try to balance the points into two tree's....lets just say you're okay at both but not able to excel in either healing, tanking or dps.  At the moment, I am 0/48/13...but probably will have 45 points into prot　at all times.  The other 16 points I will play around with but I want five points into Deflection for the extra 5% parry.  I think the chance of taking less dmg is more important then the other talents in Holy but extra Int would be nice. My plan next is:

http://www.worldofwarcraft.com/info/classes/paladin/talents.html?000000000000000000005502513352300152015010520500000000000000000

We are a very gear dependent class so even the perfect build will not help us without the proper gear.  I want to be in full Righteous Armor right now but thats not going to happen overnight and unless you're able to be a  viable part of a five man group it may never happen.  The easiest way might be to spec Holy and main heal until you get your complete set or part of the set.  I made Felani to be a Tankadin from the beginning so my goal is to stay prot and get the whole set. 

So you want to main tank as a pally before you have your Righteous Armor....what are your options?  You can try to piece together green champion and sorcerer plate to achieve +def and +spell dmg.  Or do what I did and spend lots of mats and gold to make your armor set. 

My choice is Felsteel Armor and Khorium Armor. Felsteel Armor has the base stats of Stam and Def with sockets. I would love to put in Glowing Nightseye into the seven blue and red sockets but financially its not possible for me since each gem will cost around 35g uncut and 45 to 50g cut.  So I will settle for cheaper Glowing gem with +4 spell dmg / +4 stam.  The gem choice is up to you, this is just my choice, if you figure something else out that works, let me know.  Khorium Armor is almost the perfect substitute with one stat missing.  It has stam, int, mp5 and spell dmg, only thing missing is def.  Both are three pcs set with set bonus if your a blacksmith, both have legs as part of the set so you need to choose which set is better given what you are doing.  So you will be left to piece together the bracer, shoulder and chest.  You can also have enchants and armor kits to add more stats that are missing.  Even the honored enchants from aldor or scryer will help since your shoulders will be limited to few other options. 

Blizzard sure didn't make it easy for prot pally's in getting geared. 

Helm: Pathaleon the Calculator (Mech)
Shoulder: Laj (Botanica)
Chest: Warlord Kalithresh (SV)
Gloves: Warchief Kargath Bladefist (SH)
Legs: Aeonus (CoT Morass)

[Timo]

i was mostly spec retri and thought i could try respec to prot would make better tank....bad choice i found by changing spec to prot it made me weaker defense and offense...i understand gear is the key...but just my experiment showed me my retri spec was better for the way i play...now i am spec holy and i feel more comfortable with this spec due to originally it was my first choice...but i think gear is still the key and spec are more for style of play and tools that ya have...i may be wrong surely not the first time....but gear makes or breaks the char....im by no means an expert.

[voctovian]

For tanking, the set bonus of the khorium set is not very useful (+55 healing).  IMHO, Khorium is really a great set for healing... all 4 core stats are covered stam, int, +heal, MP5.  I have used the khorium set for ages now.. I doubt I will replace it until I get something from Kara or an Arena piece. 

For tanking, I think that the core stats to look for are stam, def (dodge, block, parry), spell & int.  Secondary stats to look for are spellcrit, strength (improves block) and agi. 

That said, the Righteous set is a must have.  It is ok for fighting, but is a fantastic tanking set. 

Alternatives would be the felsteel set, green "of the sorcerer" and "of the champion" (I think).  Also, the PVP (and arena) pieces are nice, although they do not have any def.

[JohnnieRat]

Itemization as a pally tank is a bit trickier than being a Warrior or a Druid.

Since our aggro generation is based off of a stat which isn't synonomous with tanking (+Spell Damage) we are put into a little bit of a pickle. We often have to strike a balance and are forced to sacrifice our damage mitigation (+defense, dodge, parry, and agility --> dodge, a little AC, and parry......... since these things don't frequently show up alongside Int and spell damage). I'm not sure what the optimal +spell damage is although more is better. I'm sitting at about 220 and am holding aggro well so in Kara raids 300-350 should be OK for holding especially since we get to Exorcise mobs (THE POWER OF CHRIST COMPELLS YOU!!!!).

Blizz has given us an awesome set to tank with but it is quite a pain to get (Rightous Armor).

I recently respecced to prot and am switching back to Holy any day now as soon as I hit 70, buy a flying mount and train. I may switch back once I get a good tank set but as of right now, it just gimps me since I'm only at 425 defense or so and 11k armor --> you really want at least 12-13kAC and 490 defense along with at least 10k hp. So I guess I'll bite the bullet and stick with spamming Flash of Light (I refuse to give into going deep into Ret... unless we decide we want a Ret-a-din)

[dharq]

Does righteous fury increase the threat from our heals as well as our attack spells?

Looking at the itemization for t4-t6 protection spec gear, it looks as though blizzard intends for paladins to tank through healing and blocking--not attacking (no str, ap, or crit).

Does the threat boosting skill really mean all holy spells then?

[Genoism]

Does righteous fury increase the threat from our heals as well as our attack spells?

Looking at the itemization for t4-t6 protection spec gear, it looks as though blizzard intends for paladins to tank through healing and blocking--not attacking (no str, ap, or crit).

Does the threat boosting skill really mean all holy spells then?

i think pallies have an inherent threat reduction to healing spells...might be that the threat you cause through healing wouldn't be as much as through dps. You can always get a buddy pally to try on some elite mob and use ktm

[Grendeel]

i gotta get in on this conversation and stir things up a bit.    Pallys cant  tank (not including undead fights), unless its an instance that the pallys' gear is rated higher than the instance

Can you get by with a pally tanking in a group, certainly, however it changes the complexion of the fight.  I ran heroic  ramparts with Ronick and he couldnt hold aggro worth squat at the start (from him i found out holy shield is the best ability a pally can use to gain aggro). We adjusted and completed the instance (except final boss....need fr gear for that).   The adjustment was we had to wait 5-10 secs to allow him to build aggro before we engaged.  Also during the fight we had to stop dps in order not to pass him on ktm and steal aggro.

With Arc as a tank i only have to wait a couple secs, and unless its a super boss with tons of hp, i generally  dont have to worry about stealling aggro during the fight.   With Khadar, once he has 2 sunders in, I generally never have to worry about taking aggro from him again.  That down time in dpsing can make the difference between a successful fight and a wipe.  Ronick was in t4 type gear which helped tremendously, but a fair number of fights ended in him dying and maybe another party member dying as we finished off the last mob.

Pallys can tank in a pinch, and if the party knows how to fight with a pally as a tank, then u can be successful.  I love having Pallys in a group.....they can heal, offtank, bless, removed curses, and do descent dps.    I think every group should have one.   As a tank though, id take a warrior or druid first and would take a pally next if he/she and the group new what was going on.

As a comparrison, a warrior in pre Kara gear, can tank in a group on heroic mode and complete the instance.   I seriously doubt a pally with similar ranked gear can do the same thing

[JohnnieRat]

A pallies ability to hold aggro is limited only by how much mana he's willing to use. Being said, depending on if he goes just straight Seal of Rightousness or Seal of Vengeance (which has awesome long term aggro holding but like sunder, you need to let it stack a few times) depends on when DPS can start. Pally tanking is also best when theres more mobs than you can deal with on a CC level. We can consecrate and as long as everyone in the group knows what focus fire means... the mobs aren't moving.

As with the healing, Rightous Fury's toolip used to say that it only affected damage spells but now says Holy spells spells. Since all of our damage spells are holy spells, the change doesn't affect when we're tanking. Now, I've healed with it on since I have the Improved version and take less damage as a result and haven't found myself pulling aggro aside from PuG groups where healers take serious beatings... This is what makes me happy to wear plate and then I laugh because I often end up tanking more mobs than sayyyyyyyy the tank does.

In a normal situation, Yes pally heals have an inherent decrease in threat. Blizz put this in because all other classes can talent into having massively lower threat.

And Gren... wasn't it not all that long ago when everyone said that "Locks can't DPS"